Troller Yachts vs Trawler Yachts

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Tad

Okay, I love the styling of the Banjer and all the old fishboats. But, once again, they are not efficient users of fuel. ..

I know, Tad. Heavy weight long keelers and, on top of that, mounting old engines, are not the most fuel efficient boats you can find, absolutely. But they are handsome, aren't they?...
I post them because greenseas2 is talking about trolling type boats, which I understand are more or less the style.
I'm not favouring this type of old style motorsailers. I think nowadays there are many other nice ones, with a medium D/L ratio, let's say from 250 to 300 (Banjers' is 400+) , with much less wetted surface and better fuel efficient engines.

[SAQuestor]

Originally Posted by Tad

About the best mileage I can find is the attached motorsailer by Phil Bolger. He estimates she will cruise at 6 knots with a 16HP Yanmar getting about 20mpg and considerably more with some use of the sails. A 35' version of this would be awsome!

That is efficient use of fuel, anything less is purely styling.

I corresponded with Bolger coming on to two years ago about creating a design similar to the one you attached, except longer. He was uninterested because he said he has so many projects in the works that he wants to finish before he is finished - which will be a sad day indeed.

Tad, couldn't one use the underwater form, the box keel and chine, and then "style" the topsides to be a bit less boxy? Do you suppose that the boat would still be as efficient as Bolger suggests? Or is there something else to this design that I'm missing makes it fuel efficient?

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

I know....But they are handsome, aren't they?...

Yes they are

Guillermo, I know you know, it’s those that aren’t aware of alternatives that I would post for. I emailed you a power curve for the Perkins, to your Banjer address. It would seem that at the RPM and fuel use you quoted you are using much more HP than suggested by the Perkins Prop curve?

SeaQ, The Bolger could certainly be re-styled, using similar heights and adding length would improve her looks considerably. As drawn you are pushing a heavily loaded canoe through the water, the beam is only for stabilization when heeled. Thus the efficiency and longer would just get better, but it must be light.

All the best, Tad

[Greenseas2]

Just got to yahoo and type in Harold C. Hanson designs.

[FAST FRED]

"what I'm looking for is a good double endeed design that would be affordable to those who want to cruise under power."

The double ended design is really fine for the life boat fellows that may need to row to a rescue.

The design has a lower hull speed than the normal design , so will require more fuel or a slower voyage for the "poor common man" you envision desperate to cruise.

Why handycap these old folks?, just to appear "seaworthy" ?,
seems as "bad" as having a 150 ft sales tool for the more sucessfull boaters.

FAST FRED

[Greenseas2]

Fred, go to yachtworld.com and type in "Monteryery Clipper 32. There's one for sale in Alameda, California for $40k and could probably be bought for less. This is the type of boat that I have been advocating due to it's economical long range. It's no slopoke either. Ideal for us crispy critters (seniors).This boat is a little different in that it is powered by an industrial Lister diesel that is air cooled. I've seen these used in other work type boats with no problems. The boat also definitely has character. Some of these types are being built in low numbers on the west coast.

[SAQuestor]

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

Fred, go to yachtworld.com and type in "Monteryery Clipper 32

Easier, here's the link; 32' Monterey Clipper

[fcfc]

Do I read well ?

Year : 2002 : about 4 years old.

Engine Hours : 35

The owner may have done tremendous savings on the fuel. That's why he sells his boat so low

[Greenseas2]

The monterey clipper is an example of the double ended trolers that basically have an efficient sailboat type hull that doesn't require a lot of power to push it. The type is economical and affordable. You can put any size engine in it that you wish, but fuel consumption goes up with speed. Hull speed of S/L 1:1 or a little higher is all that is needed. While she won't plane, she will go relatively long distances at a comfortable pace with moderate fuel usage and has room to enhance the living area for comfortable cruising. Nice part about the double enders is control while shooting inlets, that why the USCG has them for rescue purposes in places like Washington and Oregon. I've made many transits of Manasquan inlet in nasty seas with flat back boats and had to work hard to keep from broaching. Also went through with double enders with no problems. Manasquan is one of the worst inlets on the US east coast.

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

Nice part about the double enders is control while shooting inlets,

Yes, the "Noah" effect, a well known principal of naval architecture


Tad

[Vega]

Originally Posted by fcfc

Do I read well ?

Year : 2002 : about 4 years old.

Engine Hours : 35

The owner may have done tremendous savings on the fuel. That's why he sells his boat so low

Nah, you didn't read the full story:The original fiberglass hull was constructed in 1983 .The owner then spent the next 15 years finishing the build and completed the vessel in 2002. " It is a fiberglass hull with 23 years.

I would like to discuss the fiberglass qualities in what regards aging. I have started a thread, but it looks that I am the only one interested.
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11455

[Greenseas2]

I read the full description of the Monterey and the time it took to finish it> people are squirrely when it comes to selling boats. We just had a stock broker buy a brand new boat and sold it 9 months later for half of what he paid for it. My boat is 25 years old and the fiberglass is in good shape as are some of the first ones made back in the 50's. I'll check your thread out.

[fcfc]

It would be interesting to understand why someone spends 15 years building a boat, then sails it as little as 35 hours within 4 years, then sells it. I fear the main point is the boat does not hold expectations put in it.
I fear it may reach the fuel efficiency expected, but the tradeoffs done to reach this efficiency render the boat unusable, up to the point to sell it at loss.

[SAQuestor]

Originally Posted by fcfc

It would be interesting to understand why someone spends 15 years building a boat, then sails it as little as 35 hours within 4 years, then sells it. I fear the main point is the boat does not hold expectations put in it.
I fear it may reach the fuel efficiency expected, but the tradeoffs done to reach this efficiency render the boat unusable, up to the point to sell it at loss.

It is my understanding that the lure of the sea pales once the boat is completed.

Often, it seems, the act of building something is the primary motivator, not the actual messing about in a boat.

One only has to peruse the all too numerous "projects" that await someone to take over and complete for a good sense of how life intrudes and wrecks the best laid plans.

My point? I can easily see a craftsman plodding along until the project is finished and then losing interest in 35 hours of running.

[Vega]

Yes you have a point, but 35 hours in a cruising displacement boat is something like 200 miles...that's no cruising, that's a small journey. I mean a guy that builds a cruising boat, it is because he wants to cruise...at least once?