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  #151  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:12 PM
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Tad Tad is offline
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The first post in this thread as well as post #134 make declarations that old troller designs will make good cruising boats. I have tried in various posts in this thread to make clear what a troller is and is not....people don't seem to be getting the message.

A troller is a commercial fishing vessel, it's comfort at sea and stability are both dependent on a heavy load of ice and/or fish. Without this load aboard they are dangerously unseaworthy boats. To convert a troller to a pleasure craft requires the addition of thousands of pounds of ballast which costs money (fuel) to haul around every time you leave the dock. This may be a minor issue if you already own a troller and don't cruise far per year. But building a new hull to haul a large load and then adding ballast to get it down in the water is nutty.....The Seaton design above does this, as well as the Monterey and the Scandinavian influenced PNW designs.

And WickedG....troller plans (William Garden) as well as trawler plans (Albert E. Condon) are most certainly available for study or purchase from the GW Blunt White Library at Mystic Seaport.
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  #152  
Old 12-26-2010, 01:58 PM
Speedy3 Speedy3 is offline
 
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Trollers are built to carry hundreds of pounds of salmon. Trawlers are designed to drag nets and carry thousands of pounds of catch back to port and may be less stable when light. A trawler needs a lot of ballast if converted. A troller needs much less ballast and is suited well for a passagemaker design. They are two very different designs and many people seem to confuse them.
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  #153  
Old 12-26-2010, 02:55 PM
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Easy Rider Easy Rider is offline
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TAD,
I don't think the troller is as bad as you imply. Only for small periods of time are trollers lucky enough to have a hold full of fish. There are many converted trollers out there and I've heard no stories of unstable converted boats sinking.
Seine boats and other larger fish boats unloaded will have their sterns high in the air and I certainly do wonder how they get around safely. More than light displacement I think pitch attitude is a bigger problem. In the 70s I converted a 30' troller. I took out the GMC gas converted truck engine out of the cabin and installed a 25hp flat head Palmer marine engine w flywheel in front in the fish hold (fwd end on fish hold just a bit aft of center of the boat). I thought it ran quite well.

Easy
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  #154  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:32 AM
pioneercmt pioneercmt is offline
 
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I agree with Easy, I have a 36' PNW salmon troller and don't feel dangerous when she's empty of crabs or fish. She weighs around 35,000 lbs, and a full load of iced fish in the hold would be an additional 6,000 - 8,000 lbs. But, I always run with the poles down and locked. If the seas are heavier, I drop in the stabilizers. Maybe a "pleasure yacht" version of my boat would also require stabilizers, but then again it might not have all the rigging on top of the house etc that the commercial fishing version would have, and therefore maybe not need stabilizers?
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  #155  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:56 AM
Greenseas2 Greenseas2 is offline
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Troller conversions

There have been several salmon trollers that have been converted to pleasure cruisers and I believe there is one on Yachtworld.com at this time. Trollers excel in maintaining control in following seas, especially inlets. Any troller or trawler is designed with a certain amount of ballast and outriggers are installed on fishing trollers mainly to hold several lines outboard while trolling. I believe that they may be to lightly built to serve as roll dampening devices except with very small paravanes. The best aspect of trollers is very low fuel consumption with low powered engines. Trollers with accommodations found in todays trawlers would be as safe, if not safer, in heavy seas. Bear in mind that the USCG life saving boats stationed at inlets are double ended, but with different bottom design to provide higher speed.
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  #156  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:24 PM
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Tad Tad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneercmt View Post
don't feel dangerous when she's empty
Yes, I understand, very few boats "feel" dangerous......I would wager that of the 157 fishing vessels that capsized in BC between 1975 and 2005, none "felt dangerous"....yet those boats did capsize and 66 guys drowned......every single boat that I incline and write a stability book for is attested by the owner to be perfectly stable.....yet some do not meet requirements.....owner's do not understand this...."how could that be she feels perfectly safe".

I'm not talking about how the boat feels...I talking about whether it meets or exceeds internationally recognized standards of stability.

These in fact.....

A The area under the righting lever curve (GZ curve) should not be less than
0.055 m-rad up to 30 angle of heel.
B The area under the righting lever curve (GZ curve) should and not less
than 0.090 m-rad up to X angle of heel.
C The area under the righting lever curve (GZ curve) between the angles of
heel of 30 and X should not be less than 0.030 m-rad.

X 40 or the angle of flooding θf if this angle is less than 40. θf is the angle
of heel at which openings in the hull, superstructures or deckhouses which
cannot rapidly be closed watertight commence to immerse.

D The initial metacentric height GM0 should not be less than 350 mm for
single deck vessels. In vessels with complete superstructure the metacentric
height may be reduced to the satisfaction of the competent authority but
in no case should be less than 150 mm.

E The maximum righting lever GZmax should occur at an angle of heel
preferably exceeding 30 but not less than 25.

F The righting lever GZ should be at least 200 mm at an angle of heel equal
to or greater than 30. The righting lever GZ may be reduced to the satisfaction
of the competent authority but in no case by more than 2(24-L)%, where

L is the length of the vessel as defined in the FAO/ILO/IMO Voluntary
Guidelines for the Design, Construction and Equipment of Small Fishing
Vessels (2005).

Based on the FAO/ILO/IMO Voluntary Guidelines for the Design, Construction and Equipment
of Small Fishing Vessels, 2005



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  #157  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:18 PM
Schoonertack Schoonertack is offline
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Tad; I agree. The economics/Seasonality of the fishing industry, (read make hay while the sun shines}. Push boats to the limits. I have seen boats with their decks awash waiting to be unloaded. 0 stability. God may protect fools and sailors (small caps none singled out, myself include) But when you design a boat you better remember these factors. All the best ,one and all
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  #158  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:32 PM
masalai masalai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad View Post
The first post in this thread as well as post #134 make declarations that old troller designs will make good cruising boats. I have tried in various posts in this thread to make clear what a troller is and is not....people don't seem to be getting the message.

A troller is a commercial fishing vessel, it's comfort at sea and stability are both dependent on a heavy load of ice and/or fish. Without this load aboard they are dangerously unseaworthy boats. To convert a troller to a pleasure craft requires the addition of thousands of pounds of ballast which costs money (fuel) to haul around every time you leave the dock. This may be a minor issue if you already own a troller and don't cruise far per year. But building a new hull to haul a large load and then adding ballast to get it down in the water is nutty.....The Seaton design above does this, as well as the Monterey and the Scandinavian influenced PNW designs.

And WickedG....troller plans (William Garden) as well as trawler plans (Albert E. Condon) are most certainly available for study or purchase from the GW Blunt White Library at Mystic Seaport.
My view agrees with this perspective posted by Tad... I contend that the big ocean ploughs are all part of peer or is it Pier pressure as each endeavours to out bling all others with bigger and bigger exhaust holes, a deeper throaty roar and create bigger wakes all proving total and abject inefficiency and inability to part the waters... as well as a demand to burn more fuel than any sane person would wish to spend on moving from one marina to the next, (or usually just going out and back to the same spot), begs the question "Huh?......................."

I have gone for the challenge of being very fuel efficient, spacious and comfortable in most sea-states in the region where I cruise... The writing is on the wall and the moving hand, having writ, moves on My range with a fuel-load of less than 1500kg is sufficient for 13 days and lots more of non stop movement at cruise speed... But everyone knows that live-aboard cruisers usually are moving for less than 20% of the time...

The thing is, select your boat for what you will be doing... If you leave the marina briefly (weekend) for 4 or less times a year, get a big houseboat and bling it up... A serious cruiser/live aboard person will look at the region in which they intend to cruise and select accordingly... My research and experience led me to select something less than 40 ft LOA, light, able to sit comfortably on the bottom, and with care, gently bounce over some shallow sandbanks to find that secluded and sheltered anchorage from which to explore by "rubber-duckie", Kayak, or over land - - to discover the beauty and pleasures of your little piece of paradise found...

My boat, "CNO" is a working boat, built to meet a set of needs that does not include eye-candy to impress the jealous observers and critics forever bound and stuck on the wharf...

Further to my point on Pier/peer pressure, "Cruising Cat with America's Cup pedigree" - My goodness, what a load of cods-wallup... At best it is a penis-substitute and bling-machine to pull the chicks looking for a fast buck... It is a miserable grey and rainy day so a browse into the magazine stand to look at the latest Australian Multihull World... An "infomercial" promoting the latest build based on the AC 60 with a "cruising version MC60... Oh dear - obviously too much money and no intention to cruise... I would love to see it CREW only of course on passage up to the Whitsundays in late winter for the owners to be on board for the start of the racing season... The open ocean run from Sydney and up to say, Bundaberg/Gladstone could be "real fun" if a good southerly got going....
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  #159  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Schoonertack Schoonertack is offline
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I must; therefor 6 knots is a minimum speed for a lifeboat. a cruising speed of V1.15LWL. would be 27.5' LWL (Allways round up) 8 tons would be as light as I would want to be, fuel consumables 10% ballast for a true offshore boat. Call that 18hp. at 6 knots calm weather. 13 x 24 = 312 gallons safety factor 50% or 468 gallons, 3,340 lbs.of fuel. Are we talking much the same thing??
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  #160  
Old 01-18-2012, 04:40 AM
gundagai gundagai is offline
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troller yachts v trawler yaghts

I have a modified trailer sailer and powered only by an 5hp outboard sleeps 4. Great boat cheep to run . In my life the cheapest and nastiest boats get used and maximiumn enjoyment. Do'nt have to worry about scratches and the like mine is a roughy. Cheers
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  #161  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:46 AM
ZaaraWilson ZaaraWilson is offline
 
Five steps to keep in mind for yachts :-
1. Install new raw water impellers every two years.
2. Replace engine belts as needed.
3. Service/clean engine raw water strainers as needed.
4. Replace hoses and clamps as needed.
5. Exercise electronics monthly.
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  #162  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:14 AM
Schoonertack Schoonertack is offline
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Couldn't agree more. 12 foot tinnie skiff. will see more hours of use a year than any other boat, with the exception of a live aboard. Just as an aside, one of the high end boat rags has a tag line on its cover ( one million man hour overhaul), the latest issue. I am as besot with things that float as any other fool. I consider boats the highest form or art. I can not rationalize a million man hour overhaul. Probably a very nice yacht though?
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  #163  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:30 AM
gundagai gundagai is offline
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Yes My boat can be seen if you search Drugsub on the net its the yellow one. They are amazing boats to be able to handle all weathers with huge loads. Next to these is the long slender wave piercing boats that require little power. Look up wave piercing on the net you might be suprised. by the way that boat having one million man hours is over 114 years continual service, amazing. Iggle from http://rideinmodelboats.blogspot.com/
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  #164  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:48 AM
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Easy Rider Easy Rider is offline
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Yea TAD's right. I have a 30' Willard that is much like the troller yacht. A bit wider and shorter w about 23 % ballast. 27.5' WLL and I estimate she needs 18hp to make 6.15 knots. She has 100 gallons of fresh water aft and when she's got empty tanks I would'nt go out in much of a stern sea but the boat is wonderful with full tanks and not too much weight fwd.

Easy Rider
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  #165  
Old 05-29-2012, 06:46 PM
dirtydieseldave dirtydieseldave is offline
 
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Location: east la Jackson high
monterey

Hi, I have owned two Monterrey's over the years fished and crab ed both. the first one was 32' wood built in 1927, and the other was fiberglass. The first one had a 2 71 for power and the other had a ninsan. Full speed 3/4 gal per hr. As far as a sea boat The best way to say it is when I would be looking for a deckhand they were concern about how small the boat was. As most fished large boats. I always wailed for them to respond when we got into some bad **** with nowhere to run. It was always ******* this fells as good as anything I've been on
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