Tornado based Tri

[tambo]

Hi all
Sure you've had this request before but am after details for the Trimaran using Int Tornado hulls as Amas.

Cheers

[Chris Ostlind]

Tambo,

I have done two different versions of trimarans that fit that general description. One has a full cabin and the other is drawn to have a cabin of convenience for gear storage and the like.

Both boats make use of the Tornado hulls and rig. Both also have a simple, solid, folding system for ease of use and trailering.

They are shown in the renderings with amas making use of daggerboards instead of the normal centerboards that are on the Tornado. The concept is still the same.

Are either of these what you had in mind?

Chris

[tambo]

Hi Chris

Many thanks. Yes, the cabin version could be of interest. The main hull would need to be self build in epoxy coated ply. Is it 24'+? I already have access to the Tornado hulls, these no doubt have to be modified to take the dagger boards?

Regards

Tambo

[tspeer]

Have you looked at the Tremolino?

[Capn Mud]

Chris,

I am interested in what you think the performance difference between the 2 will be assuming the same crew and gear weight.....

Part of the reason for asking is that I am looking to do a tri design myself here in Indonesia and looking around I see that narrow main hull designs abound. I guess this is primarily weight saving as the amas provide stability so the main hull doesnt have to.

My idea was to have a wider main hull with a planing hull like a skiff or sportboat and use the amas a bit like "wings with training wheels" for those of us who struggle keeping fast mono dinghy upright. The idea to keep the amas just skimming the water as far as is possible and have the main hull get up on a plane like a skiff or sportboat. Yes this design will be heavier than a narrow hull design but could the planing nature compensate for this?

Is there anything in this or are my thoughts fundamentally flawed somehow?

Cheers,
Andrew

PS - do you sell the cabin version design plans at all?

[tambo]

Originally Posted by tspeer

Have you looked at the Tremolino?

Thanks tspeer. I have looked at the Tremolino but there just isn't enough cabin space. (Can it be made using Tornado hulls instead of Hobie?) I may have to consider something larger to get enough cabin space. Any ideas?
Cheers

Tambo

[tambo]

Hi all

Found the design I was thinking off, the Typhoon. Anyone have experience of same? Looks pretty minimal?

Cheers

Tambo

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Capn Mud

I am interested in what you think the performance difference between the 2 will be assuming the same crew and gear weight.....

As well as sail area, too. I'd expect the slender trimaran, sans formal cabin structure, to kick the crap out of the other boat.

Originally Posted by Capn Mud

Part of the reason for asking is that I am looking to do a tri design myself here in Indonesia and looking around I see that narrow main hull designs abound. I guess this is primarily weight saving as the amas provide stability so the main hull doesnt have to.

Well, the weight saving aspects and the stability issues are part of it, but there are other reasons, as well. The wetted surface is considerably lower and the frontal area of the vaka hull is decidedly smaller, making for a much easier driven form.

Originally Posted by Capn Mud

My idea was to have a wider main hull with a planing hull like a skiff or sportboat and use the amas a bit like "wings with training wheels" for those of us who struggle keeping fast mono dinghy upright. The idea to keep the amas just skimming the water as far as is possible and have the main hull get up on a plane like a skiff or sportboat. Yes this design will be heavier than a narrow hull design but could the planing nature compensate for this?

Well, there are trimarans out there with decidedly wider hulls than you would typically see in boats like this. There are several reasons for taking the vaka hull out wider, with increased interior volume being the biggest, from my perspective. The moment you do away with the stabilizing effect of the weighted keel of a sportboat, you enter into the realm of a boat that will be very hard, if not impossible, to keep upright with the amas just skimming.

You may see certain wind and water conditions in which you can do this, but it won't be often. On a bigger boat, where the crew weight is not nearly as important, it will be a factor on very rare occassions. I suspect you can do it regularly on the Weta, but things change when you size up for the comfort factors of a cabin. Then, again, a Weta is (from my perspective) really a hauling ass, totally fun skiff in trimaran clothing. It's a boat that blurs the line between what is a trimaran and what is a skiff. There are a few French boats of this same general type, such as the Virus 21. Nothing at all wrong with the genre and I like them a lot. It's just very different from a more conventional trimaran form.

As to planing with a trimaran.... well, hang onto your hat, Cap'n, if you want to open that can of worms. My take is that trimarans do not plane. It's a complex description that would take a goodly deal of writing to explain and there is plenty of material on this Forum where the topic has been hashed to death already with my posts causing more than a little bit of angst for those who are entrenched in the planing claims. There are proponents of the state and there are those who do not buy it, so search the topic, take a camp and let it flow.

Originally Posted by Capn Mud

PS - do you sell the cabin version design plans at all?

Both of the designs, as shown above, are at the very end of their engineering calc process. When I first did the concepts, they were very much at the front end of my "to-do" list. As time went by, other, more pressing projects forced their way into my noggin as well as pocket book and the folding trimarans had to be put on the back burner in the name of pragmatism (along with a lovely wife who rightly expected me to generate an income) So, it's been the less complex boats that have put the cash flow into the hopper.

Short answer... I'd love to get to them both later this summer if nobody walks in the door with a cool request to design another boat.

Chris

[Capn Mud]

As to planing with a trimaran.... well, hang onto your hat, Cap'n, if you want to open that can of worms. My take is that trimarans do not plane. It's a complex description that would take a goodly deal of writing to explain and there is plenty of material on this Forum where the topic has been hashed to death already with my posts causing more than a little bit of angst for those who are entrenched in the planing claims. There are proponents of the state and there are those who do not buy it, so search the topic, take a camp and let it flow.

Chris,

I have read alot of those posts and tend towards your camp actually.

What I was meaning was getting the main hull on a plane either partially supported by leeward ama (in which case boat itself is NOT planing IMO) or with amas just skimming (in which case maybe it is).

My concept was for the smaller sized boat like a Weta but with a broader flatter hull form more like a skiff. Even more a skiff in tri clothing than the Weta which to me seems too narrow to ever have a chance of really planing the main hull as described above.

Thanks for being so generous with your time to make comments. When I get something off the drawing board I will post for your thoughts.

Cheers,
Andrew

[sonosail]

Originally Posted by tambo

Hi all

Found the design I was thinking off, the Typhoon. Anyone have experience of same? Looks pretty minimal?

Cheers

Tambo

Reg White (Sailcraft - first builders of Tornados) Offered these in the late 1960s'. They were made so you could switch back and forth between your Tornado, and then the floats for this trimaran. They sold just the rig and main hull, or complete with the Tornado floats. No idea how many were built or how successful they were. I wish I could find a decent picture or drawing.
http://www.sailboatdata.com/admin/vi...?class_ID=5529

[tambo]

Originally Posted by sonosail

Reg White (Sailcraft - first builders of Tornados) Offered these in the late 1960s'. They were made so you could switch back and forth between your Tornado, and then the floats for this trimaran. They sold just the rig and main hull, or complete with the Tornado floats. No idea how many were built or how successful they were. I wish I could find a decent picture or drawing.
http://www.sailboatdata.com/admin/vi...?class_ID=5529

Thanks Randy

Last year there was quite a bit of Typhoon info on Scott Brown's multi forum. Unfortunately, that forum appears 'down' at the moment. I'll let you know if I get any pictures/drawings.

Tambo

[sonosail]

Originally Posted by tambo

Thanks Randy

Last year there was quite a bit of Typhoon info on Scott Brown's multi forum. Unfortunately, that forum appears 'down' at the moment. I'll let you know if I get any pictures/drawings.

Tambo

Most welcome. That was the wrong link. I meant this one:
http://www.sailboatdata.com/viewreco...?class_ID=5529
Not much information though. I don't think I've seen this multi forum.
How does one get there, assuming it comes alive again.
Thanks.

[tambo]

Hi Randy

Just type in Scott Brown Multihulls to your browser & it will come up. He deals mainly in used Wharram cats but the forum did have some good Tri info also.

Regards

Tambo

[trikita]

Hello tambo. I registered to help you out with some informations about the "Tornado based Tri".

There has been a very fine projekt in Austria. The guy was a student and he owned a Soling keel boat and his new born idea was to be able to travel faster but he didn't want to spend too much money by buying a brand new trimaran. (Remember: He was a student, no suitcase with money in it and these days trimarans were rare to get and hard to buy them as used in Europe).

Some companions of the university he joined helped him with the arithmatics and drawing program.

If you will visit the website you will get a lot of informations how to combine a keel boat with outrigger hulls.

You will be able to download drawings and you will see some videos which show how fast this trimaran has been during the vacation in the mediterranian sea (adriatic waters).

Unfortunately Joerg Mairer, the guy who build the tri, had done one fault. He took away the ballast keel and instead this he installed a "wrong keel" made out of wood. It would have been much better if he would have chosen a integral foil (centerboard) so the trimaran could have been pulled onto a beach, too. But he didn't mentioned this solution because he wanted space in the cabin as much as possible so his beautiful girlfriend could be satisfied with the new environment, too.

The "wrong keel" out of wood was one of the reasons why he didn't get the price he was seeking for when he tried to sell the tri. He only got 2.600,-- Euros (it's two years ago and I hope my mind doesn't blame me... but I think you can bet on this price. He didn't get more... ).

He tried to sell it on eBay Austria but later the boat was berthed at Hamburg-Harburg in North-Germany and it got sold on eBay Germany for the price I was talking about.

Do visit the website and you will be amazed about the "Pegasus Project".

http://members.aon.at/trimaran/engl/eindex.htm

Try to save the website on your computer's hard drive, you will never know when the author will close the site, because the project is a bit older and the glorious days of "Pegasus" are counted.

If you want to do the same, just go and search for a hull slim enough which could be the trimarans center hull.

Perhaps a Star Boat will be good for?

What are you thinking about?

Sincerely
Peter, Germany