Is there a way to Protect a Boat Design?

[Kalagan]

Hi All,

I have a couple of designs I would like to show people to get their feed back, but I am not sure if there is a means to protect the designs, like there are for Patents, Copy Rights, and Trademarks.

What is the best way to protect a design concept before you show it to someone?

Thanks
Kalagan

[pamarine]

Originally Posted by Kalagan

Hi All,

I have a couple of designs I would like to show people to get their feed back, but I am not sure if there is a means to protect the designs, like there are for Patents, Copy Rights, and Trademarks.

What is the best way to protect a design concept before you show it to someone?

Thanks
Kalagan

Copyright is the way to do it, unless there is a completely new idea that is patentable.

[Kalagan]

Is that a design or a functionality Patent? What if the concepts are old, but combined in a way I haven't seen before?

Are Hull Designs Patentable? as a functionality or Design Patent? do you file a Provisional Patent to protect it for a year while you are filing for the real Patent? Etc. I am familiar with the Patent Process for other things, but I don't know if this Patent Process applies to Boats.

Thanks
Kalagan

[pamarine]

Design patent I would guess. I have seen very few hulls that are sufficiently unique to warrant a patent (some step-hulls, SeaCraft's variable deadrise hull for a few example in the small pleasureboat market).

Mostly, copyright is the way to go.

[Doug Lord]

Design patent is the best way without a doubt,according to my patent attorney, anyway.

[Kalagan]

Thanks for the input, sounds like a Design Patent is the way to go.

I appreciate it.

Kalagan

[Doug Lord]

You have to consider the costs and the benefits very carefully when considering any kind of patent-the protection can be good if you can afford to defend it. Generally, you should try to get anyone you show a proprietary design to ,to sign a "non-disclosure" agreement that an attorney can provide.
Even if they are good friends who you trust completely because it builds a record that shows you went all out to protect your work. Good luck!

[Alik]

Most of non-disclosure agreements are not enforcable, this is just lawyers' trick to make some money

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Alik

Most of non-disclosure agreements are not enforcable, this is just lawyers' trick to make some money

--------------
I've had good luck with mine and the attorney charged something like $25US.
It's also not so much the enforceability of the agreement as it is the fact that you got someone-hopefully several people- to sign it. That provides a record of the effort you made to protect your work.

[pamarine]

Here's why I think you may run in to problems with a design patent:

Improper Subject Matter for Design Patents

A design for an article of manufacture that is dictated primarily by the function of the article lacks ornamentality and is not proper statutory subject matter under 35 U.S.C. 171. Specifically, if at the time the design was created, there was no unique or distinctive shape or appearance to the article not dictated by the function that it performs, the design lacks ornamentality and is not proper subject matter. In addition, 35 U.S.C. 171 requires that a design to be patentable must be “original.” Clearly a design that simulates a well-known or naturally occurring object or person is not original as required by the statute. Furthermore, subject matter that could be considered offensive to any race, religion, sex, ethnic group, or nationality is not proper subject matter for a design patent application (35 U.S.C. 171 and 37 CFR § 1.3).

I'm not sure exactly what aspect of your design you are trying to patent, but generally speaking when it comes to boats patent are normally issued only for a new, unprecendented hull shape and/or configuration, a particular component of the vessel (control surface [rudder, plane, stabiliser, etc], system or system component, etc), manufacturing process, tooling process, etc.

An entire design typically employs so many common items, features, layouts, etc in both the interior accomodation and exterior form that the idea, while unique to the designer (and therefore able to be protected by Copyright laws, and a particular design element unique to the designer may also be trademarkable [is that a word? lol]), the entire design is generally not original as required by US Patent Laws.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Kalagan

Thanks for the input, sounds like a Design Patent is the way to go.

Hey Kalagan,

Take a moment and read this article before you rush out and spend the time and money on a boat hull patent.

http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i...-industry.html

Further, you may wish to take a look at this material: http://www.copyright.gov/vessels/

Most of all, it usually comes as a surprise that one's "genius moment" when coming up with the new hull, has either already been done by some guy who is building out on the side of a shed in a rented lot, or a bigger company, with far more resources than you, has lifted the concept for their own use.

A multi-thousand dollar patent makes for a pretty piece of paper to hang on your wall and most of your friends will be impressed as hell. Will it ever make you real money? Overwhelmingly not. Will you be able to mount a successful prosecution of another person, or firm, who bags your idea and starts making it themselves? You can be totally within your rights, but if you don't have the liquid cash to chase them in a very expensive court setting, forget it.

More patent violation law suits are dropped for lack of funds on the complaining party's side, than any other reason. The offended simply run out of cash and it all goes away. It would be cheaper to buy a $5K sniper rifle and pop the other guy's melon from 800 meters ;-) than it would to retain an attorney at $20K for openers and more to come soon after.... and then lose in court because the USPTO issued your cool certificate with a much too cavalier attitude.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Hey Kalagan,

Take a moment and read this article before you rush out and spend the time and money on a boat hull patent.

I'd have to second Chris' thoughts here (although in gun-shy Canada we'd frown on the whole sniper rifle idea).

Legal battles are pissing contests, and the guy with the biggest financial bladder wins. Not the guy that is right. Don't confuse law with justice.

Establish copyright and date, time and ownership of your designs by sending a sealed, registered package to your lawyers containing the design specifics, CAD files and drawings. Leave the package in escrow, sealed and if someone does appropriate your work product, THEN and only then talk to your lawyers if there is enough reason to proceed. Extended legal proceedings are only worthwhile if the funds you can reliably recover exceed the cost of filing suit. Otherwise, send a cease and desist order and leave it there.

--
Bill

[pamarine]

Have to say something about establishing copyright since it was brought up.

Sending a sealed envelope registered mail does not a copyright make. While in the US you are automatically given copyright of all original material, in order to ensure that copyright is protected and enforceable, you must file with the US Copyright Office.

If you don't have a lawyer that can help you through this process, websites such as legalzoom.com can do it for you.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by pamarine

Have to say something about establishing copyright since it was brought up.

Sending a sealed envelope registered mail does not a copyright make. While in the US you are automatically given copyright of all original material, in order to ensure that copyright is protected and enforceable, you must file with the US Copyright Office.

If you don't have a lawyer that can help you through this process, websites such as legalzoom.com can do it for you.

I stand corrected on US law - I haven't been a resident for well over thirty years. This process has been represented to me by a third party as valid in Canada, as it clearly provides a date, time and point of origin that is verifiable by a officer of the court, with clear chain of custody. Here, copyright ownership is assumed valid and must be disproved by anyone challenging its veracity.

Thanks for the clarification.

--
Bill

[messabout]

Respondents to the OP have been polite and gentle as befits gentlemen of proper breeding. The knowledgeable ones have refrained from pooh pooing the notion that you have contrived a patentable boat. No offense is intended here. The likelyhood of a design feature of revolutionary status is so slim as to be almost non existent. Whole armies of very bright people have sougt the next miracle in boat design. This has been going on for hundreds of years. So far, none have been able to rearrange the laws of physics or fluid mechanics to suit their most sincere desires.

Within the last one hundred years there have been some gratifying design strides. Most of the advances have been the result of the signifigant improvement in propulsion gear, whether engines or sail. We have also learned how to fine tune hulls for a specific purpose. No enormous breakthroughs but a stream of small improvements. Surely there must be more things that we can discover. Thus I would not discourage anyone from trying. The possibilities are getting smaller and smaller however.

Sooner or later, if you are serious about this, you will be obliged to consult with someone who has a long background with boat history and developement. There are people who use these forums who are qualified for that. Some of the screen names that come to mind are Eric Sponberg, Par, Ad Hoc, maybe Tom Speer if your ideas involve aerodynamics. If you have some low power propulsion ideas then Rick Willoughby knows his stuff. This is just a partial list of smart forum people. I expect that some of these individuals would evaluate your ideas for small change reward.

An early order of business is to do a thorough search of patent records to see if "prior art" exists. If so; game over. You can probably do most of the search yourself, either online or at a library that has these files. Many university libraries have that facility. If you have a professional search person do this for you, then expect to drop $1000 or more. You do not need a patent attorney for that service. I have been through the patent process more than once but not for anything that resembled a boat. The process can be tedious and expensive. Do as much work on your own as you can manage. Meanwhile, keep thinking but do not beguile yourself.