Submarine Yacht project

submarine yacht how to idenify civil

Hi lima,

Well i assume in the same way as you avoid frogman hunting killer dolphins when you are scuba diving on a coral reef - or be shot at the airport when you could not shave and got bearded like a bin...

Beatles and yellow paint is fine... also do not sneak in diving into military installations - just pop up and approach in daylight - identify properly - it is very common that people will seek identification before shooting even military minded ones...like at the airport passport control if you don´t run nor hide a identity check will be all that navy wants.

cheers Wilfried

 

Heay Wil, don't use your sub in the British Underground 'cos the cops shoot first.

PS For non English speaking countries an underground is a subway

Thanks for the explanation on your weight dropping system, I tend to forget that due to the concrete construction there is little if any reduction in sub size due to compression. Probably a litre of water on the surface for bouyancy is the same for 50 metres of depth.

With only the requirement for a small ballast weight a dive cylinder fitted to the ballast tank would easily evacuate it. This I think would work to depths less than 300 metres.

Have you thought any about my comment an earlier post about fitting it with robotic arms for doing undersea work for oil rigs etc?

Poida

 

The first "blimp shaped" sub USS Albacore - read up on many design/construction details especially about gradually perfecting the aft section or the sonar housing etc.. As indicated earlier blimps are indeed very unstable on the surface in rough waters, so one should account for that in overal planning and during execution of uw missions.

http://www.ussalbacore.org/html/albacore_story.html

 

Going back to the topic of hull integrated ballast(sand),water/tank/storage/overhead compartments and perhaps even compressed air tanks. As suggested earlier concrete building methods for drainage systems using Styrofoam plugs might be the way to go in modeling these structures..

The (ballast) tanks should be divided by cca 1,5m lenght intervals to secure balance of the ship. In my view the lateral cells-tanks for fuel/air should be only cell structure for housing the aluminum/steel tanks without the permanent concrete top cover for better service accessability.

The sand for ballast tanks could be pumped inside by a hose from the outside going through the main entrance hatch, so wet dock operation is possible.

In any case some advanced drawing of this setup should be consulted with the concrete specialist to determine feasibility/cost of this hull integrated tank cell/Styrofoam plug building approach for the "slip form method" of pouring concrete ..




Pls. allow for my quickie raw concept visual..

 

Submarine yachting now means ample space for sunbathing, leisure activities on the trampoline
and under the spacious shade! Provided the sea is not rough or you are hidden in a quiet bay for the evening..

Well, as my completely novel concept how to dramatically enlarge the living space for psubs didn't stir much attention, so now you are provided with more visual clues as to what exactly I'm after.

The top (white lines) is removable wire structure for the shade/bimini. The black steel lock-in triangles are fixed part of the psub hull..

The lateral inflatable floats (could be only one long barrel) are attached to the psub hull from one or both sides (star/port) and
could be inflated by handpump or compresor hose from the ship. The overall idea, think about those very stable polynesian designs or inflatable kayaks and catamarans. This additional lateral platfrom should be easy to install from collapsible aluminium beam kit in a few minutes and relatively cheap. Optionally this could be made a little bit stronger structure (also foldable/stored at least partly inside the ship) and function not only as the frame support for the sunbathing trampoline/net platform but also as stabilizer floats for the whole psub.

Inflatable cat/kayak examples:
http://www.easysail.com/england/easyto.asp
http://www.sailboatstogo.com/catalog/product.php?category=INFLATABLE_RIG

!Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ieHldPJWI


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The last concept is to add foldable 0.8-1.2kW Papillon solarcooker placed somewhere near the aft section, because the highly polished aluminum could suffer in salt water? It might be stored either inside the ship - perhaps new model of Papillon collapsible into smaller pieces would be necessary to develop or store it as it is now in some special pressurized container outside the main hull.

In similar fashion solar water heating panels could be stored in the same outside bunk or lifted via main entrance hatch by mini lift/crane system from the inside of the psub..

These solar contraptions can greatly reduce power consumption, increase comfort, hygien and prolong the time span of expeditions.
In terms of power output this cooker can boil 6l of water in few minutes, add some losses/delay for being out of focus
because of wave up/down movement => still much better than gas/electricity cooking in tiny kitchen inside the psub..

 

concrete submarine yacht dive system

Poida:
...Thanks for the explanation on your weight dropping system, I tend to forget that due to the concrete construction there is little if any reduction in sub size due to compression. Probably a liter of water on the surface for buoyancy is the same for 50 meters of depth.

Hello Poida,
Yes, the hull of that prototype (www.concretesubmarine.com) was very little compressible what has the benefit that the dive system can work with shifting very small quantities of water.
I was able to dive and regulate that 20ton submarine in any dive depth with 1 liter of ballast water - what frankly amazed me as this was not expected in first place.
I agree that a compressed air security lift is working best to a maximum of 300m below that drop weights are a better option due to their independence of lift capacity to pressure.
Cheers Wil

 

submarine yacht robotic arms versus ROV

submarine yacht robotic arms versus ROV

Poida
Have you thought any about my comment an earlier post about fitting it with robotic arms for doing undersea work for oil rigs etc?

The concept of robot arms brings up the T-Rex problem if you have a big body and very small arms you can hardly use them. If you put big arms you blow hydrodynamics and cruise efficiency. Arms also would go in contrary to the "leave boat in water" concept which is key for economics. So i would prefer to deploy a ROV from a hydrodynamic garage on a short cable. This gives you a better way to reach remote spaces for example in a shipwreck without putting the submarine at risk, the ROV with its arms can get maintainance without lifting your submarine out of water, a independent ROV is a security factor as he can give you a picture and even cut you free in case of entanglement.
Cheers Wil

 

submarine yacht stable at surface, dive

mesuge
...earlier blimps are indeed very unstable on the surface in rough waters

Hello Mesuge
Stability in a submarine yacht depends on the moments of ballast and buoyancy and their force arm length. This is why long thin submarines stand up like a half filled bottle when the heck or front compartment gets flooded - this is a catastrophic event no matter if the boat can make it to surface or not - some of the nasties sub accidents have been associated to this.
Military subs are generally unstable in static dives as long and thin and made for speed - they maintain themselves on even keel by dynamic surfaces - they fly trough the water like an airplane - in my prototype (http://concretesubmarine.com) a big amount of ballast in a deep belly gives stability in static dives - this is also of mayor importance at snorkel mode. This prototype was not only stable in diving, it was also stable at snorkeling and surface operation.

Cheers Wil

 

submarine yacht tank system

Hello Mesuge,
...the suggested tank building concept sounds a bit complicated to me...have my own ideas on this...i am a fan of building a barren hull then ballast it in the way described on my website with a flat floor - finally doing the interior in good old yacht building woodworking ... no need of hullintegrated ... see (www.concretesubmarine.com) - expedition submarine section - anyhow i am not sure if i understand your concept properly...
Cheers Wil

 

Hi Wil,
?as posted earlier, the "hull-integrated tanks/storage" at least with fixed ballast tank for sand has been suggested firstly by you and Carsten and then developed further in another post suggesting to use drainage plug technique in concrete construction. Which is basically to put shaped Styrofoam inside the fresh concrete and then pull it out after curing -> you end up with nice 3d channels inside the concrete block..

The problem is there is not that much decription of your ballast system on your web pages, would you please make a simple diagram - something like Euronaut has on its website?..

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Anyway, I'd rather like to know your comments on this proposed inflatable cat/trimaran float platfrom setup for additional living space - just imagine if installed on both sides in that 14m psub yacht that is at least:

....shore.......beach....bay.......palmas..........
.............................................................
.............................................................
..................................x...........................
..5x3=15m2(starboard) [ || ] 5x3=15m2(port)....
..................................v..........................
............................................................
............................................................
...............ocean view..............................

(in total = 30m2 of additional living space, obviously only at times you are "parked" on the surface and not submerged..)
for very little add. costs..

 

Inner space

I think Mesuge and I are trying to describe a interior that has a series of recesses similar to a girder grillage in a FRP hull. If you look up in a large multi-story parking garage you have a perfect example of the open "coffers". Those recesses could be used to support rubber fuel/water cells. Someone mentioned snorkeling? Many years ago I can up with a concept for a globe trotting Semi-sub yacht, very similar in size to wellmer's sub. It was my stab at a inexpensive, simple way to traverse oceans in a relatively small craft. Steel hull, pure diesel power, no elect or air scubbers 45' depths max. I thought of a concept to make it failsafe and stabile (with sail?) by having a weighted keel drop when any pressure breach occurred in the interior. The idea was to retain the keel connection in a recess void filled with pressure filled bladders which would shrink and release when interior pressure was lost or it sunk too deep and the depth would shrink the retainer bladders and the keel would fall away. I dont like depending on underwater release latches either, basic semi-sub yacht sketch attached.

 

submarine yacht oceangoing ocean living

dccd Design director
...Many years ago I can up with a concept for a globe trotting Semi-sub yacht, very similar in size to wellmer's sub. It was my stab at a inexpensive, simple way to traverse oceans in a relatively small craft...

Hello dccd,
..very interesting concept! in fact the biggest and most urgent problem for somebody who lives on a yacht is the hurricane season that urges the skipper to be or leave certain parts of the worlds oceans according to a strict calender. A semi sub yacht - snorkelboat - as you suggest would give you the benefit of a save harbor anywhere similar to a submarine - just go beneath the waves.
Sail power on a submarine is not so ridiculous as it looks at first sight - in fact i could not withstand the temptation to put a surfsail on my prototypes front snorkel to see what happens. The submarine made quite a nice speed in this configuration...

What concerns catamaran floats and removable decks on anchor place this will not be limited by technical possibilities but by the owners will do deploy and store that kind of extensions.

Cheers Wil

 

Very interesting discussion (and website).

I would have a few ideas for such a c-sub,too which I would like to share and get input on.

1. How feasable would a submarine with a pressure chamber be?
My idea is to use such a submarine as a mobile diving habitat, which should have the option to release divers (and a ROV) while maintaining the 1ATM inside pressure AND also be able to adjust to enviroment pressure to act as a divers habitat for research purposes (and thus allow longer diving times)
Think this: http://www.uncw.edu/aquarius/ but mobile

2. What are your ideas concerning a more modular hull, maybe consisting out of conrete speares connected by pressure locks inside a secondary hull (not pressurized)?
Wouldn't this allow for easier replacement of parts, while also increasing pressure capacity AND savety (since indiviual parts can be locked of)? Hmm but on the other hand I like the simplicity of your current design
Edit: You mention such a concept shortly on your website, would you care to explain your thoughts on this further?

3. A very outlandish idea: What about Skysails ( http://skysails.info/ ; basicly a kitesail for ships) as a mean of propulsion? Would it work submerged? Where's the most stable point to fix it to the hull to avoid unnessecary stress?
Oh and could the propulsion rotor connected to the electric motor work in reverse to charge up the batteries while "sailing"? And how effective would that be?

4. What are your general thoughts on a mostly electric powered sub anyways? With recent improvements in battery technology those Li-Ion ones should pack a considerable amout of power and range, while working as nice heavy ballast that does not get "used up" thus avoiding problems with loss of ballast (=fuel) during a longer voyage.
A small general purpose disel generator should be added that could also be taken out of the sub for other purposes of course, but that should really only be an not often used option for refuling places that do not have a reliable source of power.
Or am I missing a important part of the hole picture?

Edit: 5. what about using a CO2 scrubber system invented for divers? Is there any reason why this wouldn't work in a submarine?
Link: http://www.customrebreathers.com/

Thanks!

 

concrete submarine yacht pressure chamber

...what concerns pressure chambers in a submarine yacht with a concrete hull as lined out at: ( http://concretesubmarine.com ) to have a pressure chamber you need a submarine of a certain size, some 70-100 tons is minimum. If you have a pressure chamber it should be made of steel as this is better for internal pressure applications. To get an idea how a pressure chamber in a submarine can work check out carsten standfuss and his submarine euronaut this is best intent to the theme diver lockout and saturation diving from a relatively small submarine i have seen so far. On the other hand why would you use a diver from a submarine (except military reasons) - For salvatage investigation i am a fan of other options. You can deploy a ROV with a lot more efficiency. Or stay at 1atm with a Newt Suit.

Cheers Wil

 

submarine habitat based on a concrete hull

i have a chapter on my website about habitats - i still did not find the time to fill the stuff in this is coming soon. The basic idea is that concrete hulls allow you forming giant spheres with no size limit while steel is limited to some 2m diameter as pointed out. So this opens the way for a sphere of lets say 10m diameter that is not so much intended to be a ship but goes in the direction to the trilobis - living and working at open ocean. It could dive - to extreme depth deploy ROVs - Newt Suit divers and maintain the living space to stay for weeks on a work station in open ocean - independent from surface. Basically in 2 variations as deep sea habitat without view ports - and as below surface habitat for ocean living that avoid wave action with big acrylic bubbles for natural light.

Cheers Wil