sub build underway christmas 2011

[tugboat]

completed first frame- here it my links to my vids--

i add new vids as the build progresses-been a while but did modelling tests material tests and ive started the build -being documented for all to see..

http://www.youtube.com/user/porpoisefathom?feature=mhee

watch all the vids prior to critisizm- i promise i can defend as well as you can dish it out so dont waste our time--and those who do this - you know who you are- too predictable--but if you want a useless argument well--bring it on...try me if you like...

to those with benign motives- would love to discuss where to get a proper quick acting entry hatch or machine my own perhaps...

for the armchair critics- i am about to rock your faith in security blankets such as rubber stamps and -theory- math and conventional if this is your methodology...remember conventional came about on empirical testing and failures...not on paper-

i say this with utmost respect but the time has come to prove it - 18 months til hull completion- frames complete (barring some unforseen trouble)in the next 3-4 months erected- and the stringers mesh and plastering done around spring/summer 2013. see first frames(master frame)in my vids.

specs...
class: civil
propulsion: Diesel-electric
l.o.a- 52 ft
beam (pressure hull)- 7.8 ft outer diameter
beam hull inner 7.45 ft
displacement submerged aprox (salt water)- 36 tons
displ.(fresh water)- 35 tons submerged
displacement surfaced- 26.27 tons (fresh water)
'' '' '' '' '' -27.12 (salt water)
range-10 000 nm
speed surfaced-7 knots
'' '' '' submerged-3 knots
submerged run time- 2.5 - 4 hours
materials- pressure hull- concrete/rebar steel or ferro-cement- or fer-a-lite.

< mod note: link to previous 2010 thread: scaling down a submarine? >

[BPL]

Why so long LOA instead of something more feasible, like a one-person bubble sub?
This will take your whole life to finish without a large team and the risk of failure is enormous.
Have you already built a small one-man shallow sub?

[CatBuilder]

Being ignorant about subs, why are the military subs so much faster? Is the speed underestimated for this one?

[Mr Efficiency]

Either Walter Mitty lives, or this is the biggest amateur project since Noah's Ark.

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by BPL

Why so long LOA instead of something more feasible, like a one-person bubble sub?
This will take your whole life to finish without a large team and the risk of failure is enormous.
Have you already built a small one-man shallow sub?

the idea behind this is that the vessel is a cruising sub used to dive under heavy weather and self propelled to places that voyaging yachts go..its really not as hard as you think...it should take me 4-5 years max--this is a civil sub--much different than military which is overcomplexified for a civil application- the bubble sub is a sub mersible not a true submarine..thanks for the questions....hope i answered them to your understanding...

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Being ignorant about subs, why are the military subs so much faster? Is the speed underestimated for this one?

Its possible this will be faster--it does have the teardrop shape - but the power is at 35 hp bhp. on the surface or just below- so its not geared for speed. its difficult to calculate displacment speeds for asub since the waterline is above the whole hull while submerged..less friction wave resistance and its nearly weightless in a a neutrally bouyant state...so its difficult to predict--but with the hp i figure this is about right- my e-engine is about 18 hp at 1321 rpms. the prop is geared 4;1 and i have room for a 6 ft prop if needed...so gearing could be even more..i hope she travels at least 7 knots but im guessing this is about its limit..if anyone does have the formulas for a submarine power requirements for one this size please send them to me..ill do the math.

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

Either Walter Mitty lives, or this is the biggest amateur project since Noah's Ark.

Hi- actually there is a couple bigger ones-- one in the 80's called the spurdog- 60 ft, and more volume- and the UC3 Nautilus which
is 60 ft loa x 6.5 ft beam- mine has 1200 (aprox) cubic ft of space. the pressure hull is half that. at 450 ft surface area and about 550 c ft of volume.
The uc3 nautilus is inmy opinion not as efficient as the teardrop shaped hull.

most people design "submersible" type--not true running subs that can voyage- thanks for the post!

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Being ignorant about subs, why are the military subs so much faster? Is the speed underestimated for this one?

Any sub would be faster with nuclear power.

[bntii]

Originally Posted by tugboat

for the armchair critics- i am about to rock your faith in security blankets such as rubber stamps and -theory- math and conventional if this is your methodology...remember conventional came about on empirical testing and failures...not on paper-

Good luck with your build.

It's an odd and not infrequent argument from an amateur.

[upchurchmr]

Catbuilder,

The sub I was on for a short time was 410' long, ~30'dia pressure hull, with a 67 Megawatt reactor. It would do around 30KTS. Perhaps that would help with speed calculations, but I doubt it.

Speaking as a non-authority but a bonafied (SP? - I used the spell checker and all it gave me was "bonehead") sailor, I would not like to see the Tugboat special ever get built. He might survive it, what about the next guy who takes it over without understanding what had gone into it?

Not my job to worry, but I do think TB should be able to do what he wants. Best thing is to ignore and hope he survives.

[Mr Efficiency]

Fraught. With difficulty and danger. And the views are flat-out boring.

[Submarine Tom]

TB,

I admire your tenacity. If you're willing to die trying, then all the power to you. I take it you don't have any responsibilities, kids, etc.

Also, don't be jeopardizing any Search and Rescue resources my friend, they are a valuable asset not to be squandered.

My last comment would be: don't waste too much of your energy on defending your approach/style, just do it and post pictures, no gloating.

All the best, I can't wait to see the first crush depth test (unmanned of course)!

-Tom

[gonzo]

10,000 nm range? I find that is hard to do with a boat that size. At surface speed it would be 1430 hours of running, submerged 3333 hours. It is strange that the surface speed is greater. Submarines have less resistance submerged.

[hoytedow]

WW2 German U-boats were faster on the surface, due to lack of modern technology.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/u-boats.htm

"Her diesel engines gave a top speed of 17 knots on the surface and 7.5 knots underwater."

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by gonzo

It is strange that the surface speed is greater. Submarines have less resistance submerged.

Makes sense if you run submerged with Minkota