Steering Option

[barthautala]

Im have just recieved my plans for the Glen L riviera. Im now in the budget process and developing a timeline for completion of my rig. I call it a rig because when Im done it will have some minor design mods to help make it my own riv......

Has anyone done a drive-by-wire system on a small craft here?

i want to hook a servo to the steering system and the carb and have a complete drive by wire system to eliminate the cabeling. Ive googled systems and get alot of RC car stuff. Any drawback to using this for the throttle?

For a rudder servo I need some torque specs but since Im not a boat designer I dont know what kind of torque forces the rudder will experience. Any help on this would be great!

[barthautala]

Ok most new motors are already digital throttle control...............and since i'll be buying a new motor this wont be a problem.........

what about rudder control though?

[Frosty]

I wouldnt want electronic fly by wire steering,-it it exists? I wouldnt want cable iether,-- a good hydraulic system is maintenance free and positive..

Is also easily adaptable to dual or triple engines configerations

[barthautala]

Why not? Too old for new technology?

I should add that this is for an inboard.

[KnottyBuoyz]

Rudder torque from Vetus

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by barthautala

Why not? Too old for new technology?

I should add that this is for an inboard.

No-- its called KIS --keep it simple. Electronics are-well quite frankly a pain on a boat.. So you have some sort of actuator back there. Us Oldies know that that is not good , hell its hard enough keeping things working.

A hydraulic system is effortless ,responsive, easy to fit, reasonably maintenance free, inexpensive, and you dont need an electronics engineer to fix it when your 10 miles out to sea with black clouds on the horizon.

How does the auto pilot hook up??---

[mydauphin]

If you really want to do this - Your going to have to do a Electro-Hydraulic system. In other words build a standard hydraulic system then use a electric pump like the once used in some autopilots like tr-1 Gladiator Shadow Drive. Then hook that up to Remote control.
Only Hydraulics give you strength, reliability and speed needed for steering.

[Poida]

Was you expecting to nave the servo directly on to the rudder shaft? If so, where is the power coming from?

Maybe a servo driving a worm wheel and pinion on the rudder shaft would be feasible.

But I go with the rest, too many things to go wrong.

Poida

[barthautala]

Bah........I work with 6 servos all day on one machine(robot)......on a 600kg robot in a foundry. 20000 hours mean time between failures. If I ever put 20000 hours on a boat I should be doing something else.

Anyways my question was has anyone here ever done this.......not do you think I should or shouldnt do it.

Hey knotty, thank you for the reply......I knew torque = f x d but I wanted verification because I figured the d wouldve been to the end of the rudder where the force would be greatest and I didnt figure on surface area which wouldve been a mistake.


I was thinking on using a linear hydraulic cylinder and hook it to an eaton servo valve. I can get this stuff all day in a 12v design. Now to hook the steering shaft to a pot.............

Ah yes, I hear the KIS philosophy everyday here...........except everyone else says KISS, keep it simple stupid. So Im constricted to keeping my design basic and boring so everyone else in our business is surpassing us. Why did the model T cease to exist? It was too basic. Didnt offer anything new and cool and only came in one boring color. Why do the same thing everyone does? Try something different. Dont reinvent the wheel, just make a better one.

[Frosty]

Good luck.

But I dont think you need it, your bounding enthusiasm and confidence will see you through. Post some pics when your up and running.

[SamSam]

Originally Posted by Frosty

No-- its called KIS --keep it simple.

Frosty, I was going to say you politely neglected the last S, but apparently bart hears it all day every day. I wonder why.

[Poida]

I design materials handling equipment, and I'll take any advice any suggestion or any criticism that anybody wants to make because sometimes there is something I have not taken into consideration.

I have found the best rule to learn is, learn to listen.

Poida

[barthautala]

Originally Posted by SamSam

Frosty, I was going to say you politely neglected the last S, but apparently bart hears it all day every day. I wonder why.

Wow, thanks alot. Glad I joined in on this sweet forum.

All Ive been hearing since I joined was - "That project is too difficult" - or "You better have alot of money and alot of time" - or "Why would you do that? Why dont you just do the same thing everyone else does?"

Simplicity is not always the best way. A square is far easier to construct than a circle.......but why is the wheel round? I understand that opinions are just that - but when theyre destructive, you should probably just keep them to yourself.

I would like to thank KnottyBouys.......

Originally Posted by Poida

I design materials handling equipment, and I'll take any advice any suggestion or any criticism that anybody wants to make because sometimes there is something I have not taken into consideration.

I have found the best rule to learn is, learn to listen.

Poida

I like the advice and criticism.....when its constructive. I dont need people telling me what to and what not to do. I'll take suggestions.

You know they put DBW systems in some cars now? What would you do if that failed? I dont even like to think about it. None the less, looks like SKF makes what I want http://www.skf.com/files/004949.pdf

So for anyone who thinks this might be an interesting thing to do check them out. I wouldnt have even thought that one of my own suppliers would have something like this. We use SKF rails and bearings in our designs quite often.

[KnottyBuoyz]

Originally Posted by barthautala

I would like to thank KnottyBouys.......

It was minimal input but you're welcome. IIRC my buddy had a houseboat +45' with a VP V8 & duoprop outdrive. It was all Fly By Wire with electro servos. The boat had a flybridge and inside helm. The only problem I think he mentioned was corrosion of the electrical terminals which we fixed by embedding the whole servo control unit in epoxy. It'd be a PITA to fix later but that's the new owners problem eh? It functioned perfectly for a couple of years before he sold the boat. Sorry I don't know any of the specifics on the equipment. I've decided on hydraulic for our little trawler project for the simplicity and reliability as well as locally sourced parts. Good luck with your project. Keep us updated.

Rick

[Frosty]

I dont want to seem sarcastic but this is great. Pushing aside all the old ways and proven methods for new electronic simpler ways.

Bart is obviously prepaired to invest considerable sums of his own money to make headway in marine engineering. Re design the wheel in a way that us old codgers didnt even think about.

Bart obviously has many hours of sea time. I just wish I had his experience and his youth. What do we old codgers know its simple really. Bart will do it.

I hope you remember this converstaion when one of your linear feed back fails and its 4 oclock in the morning howling like hell and you are throwing up trying to find a fault.

You will the learn the true meaning of KIS.