Steering location

[kudu]

Greetings...I'm in the process of designing the layout of my 48' pilothouse/cutter. My desire is to locate the inside steering on the centerline of the hull to not be visually impaired, port or starboard. The mast is approx. 3 to 4 feet from the proposed steering. My question is, will this be too close to have a safe field of view? Thanks...

[kudu]

Is there anyone available that can give me some feedback? Thank you

[pjwalsh]

I have done a few coastal and offshore trips on a Deerfoot 67' with a pilot house in approximately (6'-8') the same position relative to the mast. The visibility was not great from inside at night - if you wanted to really see what was happening around you it was necessary to go outside. This was not so much due to the mast as to the tint of the pilot house glazing and the reflected light from the radar and other navigation instruments inside. During the day the visibility was ok. We usually stood daytime watches on deck and only used the pilot house at night so as to keep an eye on the radar. Crusty traditionalists like myself would go on deck at night too - easier to stay awake in the cooler air and the mental exercise of taking bearings on other traffic helps keep me alert.

I would be more worried about obstructing the reefing and furling of the mainsail with the pilothouse so close to the mast. Something that is often quite awkward on pilothouse boats is that the boom is both obstructed by the house and quite high off the deck behind it. This can make furling the sail a real pain if the boat is bouncing around. Reefing is not so bad if you use the slab arrangement and do not need to tie in reef points.

I can remember in particular one night turning the corner around Cape May into the Delaware bay - the easy beam reach in deep water became hard on the wind into a nasty short period chop over the shallows. We took the main down to proceed under power and in the process I bruised my ribs up pretty good climbing over the house. In retrospect we should have just deeply reefed, sheeted the main tight, then gone on to calmer water to take sail in completely. Then again decisions made in the middle of the night with little sleep are not always optimal.

Even so, on the Deerfoot the pilot house was well worth these tradeoffs - it was very heavily used in port and made cold weather passages oh so much more pleasant.

On the boat I am speaking of there was no wheel in the pilothouse - just controls for the autopilot, and these were, along with the rest of the navigation gear, offset to the port side. I do not think I would put the inside steering station on centerline for the sake of equal visibility on both tacks unless other interior layout considerations made it desireable.

[interlude]

I would tend to agree with the above last comment. The problem of poor visability from the leeward side of an extremely heeled over boat might be less than the forever poor direct ahead visibility with a mast at such close range. I have even opted for a portside helming position for my 37' decksaloon sailboat.

[kudu]

I want to thank pjwalsh and interlude for their feedback. Gentlemen, I appreciate your insight and experience. I will be placing the steering on the portside and also researching the potential for a furling mast.

[kudu]

Hi again, I meant to ask in my last reply... Is there was any benefit in choosing a port steering location over a starboard?

[Tim Dunn]

A starboard location for the helm lets you keep a better eye out for vessels with right of way. I had a pilot house with inside steering in that location. I had a mast just foreward of the pilot house, too. I had no visibility problems. I had clear windows, which pilot houses should have if there is a serious intent to use the inside steering, or keep watch from below. My boat was junk rigged, so I don't know how hard it would be to reef a marconi mainsail from the top of a pilot house. There are never problems when reefing junk sails.

[kudu]

Thank you for responding Tim. In my quest to create the ideal pilot house, searching countless pages of floor plans and receiving feedback here, it has become apparent the location is merely a personal choice. Nothing seems to written in stone, would this be a true statement?

[Tim Dunn]

Well, Kudu

I have certainly seen a lot of variation. A lot of stock boats don't provide any steering inside of "raised salons." In fact, a lot of stock designs don't provide any ability to look out of the windows of raised salons while seated. A lot of designers are heavily influenced by concerns about how a pilot house will look, and give poor visability from a pilot house because they are trying to shave off a few inches of height because they think they look better, or because they want for people seated in the cockpit to be able to see over the pilot house when looking foreward. Some don't seem to give foreward visibility any thought at all, and the helmsman in the cockpit must stand to see foreward.

Almost no stock boats meet my criteria for a pilot house--good visability foreward and all around from an inside steering station, good visability all around while seated in a dinette in a pilot house, and good visability foreward through the pilot house for
persons seated in the cockpit. See www.tedbrewer.com and www.dixdesign.com for lots of pilothouse designs.

[Willallison]

Couldn't agree more with Tim.
Can you imagine buying a car that you couldn't see out of?

[kudu]

I have a definate agenda for my pilothouse. First and formost is visibility, hence my inquiry about situating it on the centerline of the boat. But with my mast so close, that is not "do-able". So the next best choice is starboard. In my search for the ultimate design, it has been my experience that most pilothouse floor plans follow the same generic style and are more reminscent of a motorhome or travel trailer. I favor the look of the Hans Christian 44' pilothouse, I hope to be as creative in that respect, making it more eye appealing and designing the cabinetry to flow better. It makes the task even more dificult when placing the galley in the same location. Being able to field questions here and pick the brains of knowledgeable people in this forum is a huge asset, I'm greatful. I have also been perplexed by seeing some pilothouses with outside steering locations mounted with the typical stern cockpit arrangement, the HC 44' being guilty of the same. It seems pointless to me, your vision forward is severly limited. I'm considering to mount it on the aft portion of the pilothouse near the companion way, where one can see over the roof, any thoughts?

[interlude]

The advantage of port steering location is for passing port to port and going up channels/entering port etc. The debate goes on...

[pjwalsh]

If you design the pilot house carefully you should still have good forward visibility from the aft steering position - just make it of such a width that you can see past it from the windward side of the wheel or tiller. Many houses are too tall to see over no matter if the helmsman is standing or not. In my opinion the outside helm is essential.

One of the best small craft layouts I have ever cruised on was a 36' Bahamian built (William Albury) motor sailer. The house was fairly tall, open at the after end and had good 6'-6" headroom at the centerline. The cockpit and pilot house had the same deck elevation and the cockpit was wide and deep, sort of similar to a smaller sportfishing boat fighting deck. There was a single helm seat to port and the companionway offsett to starboard. The galley was below and immediately to port of the campanionway, storage for food to starboard. The main cabin had two simple berths with a folding table between them and cabinets along the sides. Forward of the main bulkhead and mast there was a small shower and head and a (somewhat cramped) v-berth. It was very compact and comfortable.

The earlier comment about designers shaving the house height down to the minimum to preserve a lovely profile view is certainly true - and usually the boat would look fine in three dimensions with the taller house - a 2-d profile sometimes can be very misleading as to appearance. The Albury boat had a stodgy sort of design - long eyebrow on the house, verticalish rake to the flat forward pilothouse windows, and a rather tall cabin trunk. On paper it probably did not look like much but this boat would really turn heads. Of course this arrangement was built on top of a well modeled traditional Bahamian hull with a just right tumblehome at the transom and husky bows. It was powered by a ford-lehman deisel with a 14" prop and drew about 4'.

[kudu]

Hi pjwalsh....Thanks for your response. Our pilot house has to incorporate the galley, the one and only request from the first mate. I realize that this requires additional interior volume plus using the Hans Christain 44 "pilot house" design it will definately make it more problematic for safe navigation incorporating the stern cockpit. The lastest thought was to add the additional space saved from the cockpit and add it to the aft stateroom interior volume. The only issue I have with this arrangement is hydraulic steering seems to be more appropriate for the installation. Do you have knowledge of hydralic vs. cable vs. rack and pinion steering, the pros and cons?

[pjwalsh]

Kudu,

I would prefer a cable system to either hydraulic or rack and pinion, but this is just my personal preference to be able to feel the helm pressure. Actually I would prefer a tiller over all these alternatives! Probably both the hydraulic and rack and pinion arrangements are superior to cable as far as reliability goes. The hydraulic solution definitely gives better flexibility on placement of the helm. Rack and pinion will probably never break.

On the pilot house galley location, of course you must respect the desires of your partner. However consider that the pilot house is above the center of rotation of the hull and so the motion there will be of larger magnitude than below. I am assuming that the pilot house sole is significantly above the cabin sole here.

am not familiar with the HC 44', but I would be interested to see your design if you would be willing to post a sketch, or e-mail.