Spline Weights

[Dave Fleming]

"Wide ducks prevent you from placing them close together, which in turn makes drawing tight curves difficult."

I agree even in the Loft we had shop made ones about 5lbs each and they had nice narrow beaks which did make things easier.

You folks remember what a real down on hands and knees loft was don'cha?

[ericb]

There was an article in Woodenboat a few years back that told how to make 'ducks' using lead shot rather than molten lead. Basically you make a wooden case, fill with lead shot, and then seal it up good. One benefit is not having to deal with molten metal. Disadvantages - size, weight???

Anyone ever try to make these? Any success?

Oh yeah, the Woodenboat issue was #152, Jan/Feb 2000. I subscribed to this for one year and got lucky enough to have this particular one in my possession. It has a picture of some nice Venetian gondolas on the cover.

Eric

[edneu]

One nice feature of the shape of my Spline weights (K+E) is that the bottom of the tail of the weight has a slight rocker. This is handy when are checking the fairness of the spline by "unhooking" the weight to see if the spline moves, you just rock them back, no move, rock them down into the spline.

I saw the Westlawn spline weights at IBEX, They are nice and plenty heavy for drafting use. As for crawling on the floor lofting, well it depends on the spline if they would be adequate, You wouldn't want a 75 oz lead (nicely finished) lead chunk flying off of a highly sprung spline at you with any velocity.

[8knots]

Hey guys: I have kind of put this on the back burner but if anybody wants some I will proceed. I have my foundry set up now. But unfortunatly still have a real job so my projects have been dormant for a while. I have purchased a set of 1/2" pattern letters so I can customize them for you all. I can cast them in bronze and patina them also. because I am In Alaska I can cut the price to save you on shipping.... Say maybe $22.00 each. I had thought of putting a set of 6 up as a prize for a design contest held here????..... Havent really thought it through and have yet to propose it to Jeff and the powers that be here on the boards. Or maybe a trade for some work on one of my designs? Anyway sing out if you like them I will give them priority if the interest is there!
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...ighlight=ducks

[8knots]

For the guys trying plaster here is a link to a site you can get some info on green sand casting and CHEAP ways to get some metal melted. The key to plaster is NO MOISTURE!!!!! even the low melt temps of lead will cause the water trapped in the plaster to explode as it turns to steam instantly. I dabbled with it for a short time and abandoned it. I use oil bonded sand now for all my castings. If you like the idea of casting the cleats on your classic it can be done fairly cheaply. check out budget casting supply's link they ship free to the lower 48. and by all means use a real crucible (silicon carbide) and you safety gear! I picked mine up on EBAY for a fraction of new. The keyword for searching is "aluminized" my suit is aluminized kevlar from NASA surplus. I think I paid $58.00 bucks for the whole set-up
helmet
jacket
pants
gloves
If anybody needs a little help finding stuff E-mail me I will try!
8Knots http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

[ErikG]

THANKS 8

Looks like an informative site alright
I'll still do my own ducks since shipping from US/Can to sweden can at times make my wife get an angry reddish face

ErikG

[Willallison]

I too would love aset of your ducks 8, but I fear the the freight to Oz would be little frightening....

[8knots]

Don't give up the ship yet lads. I'm thinking on ways to make them hollow inside so you could fill them with lead yourself. still do not know what the weight would be on them. I went and bought pattern wax today so I will know pretty soon. I will keep you posted.
8

[Stu waring]

To clarify the Westlawn spline weight... I was quite unhappy selling our students plastic shells fill with shot, our only answer to supplying them with spline weights. I approached two very good friends of mine, Dave Hopton and Craig Smith of Elkhorn Composites in Watsonville, CA who have done a tremendous amount of tooling for me in the past both in glass and lead and inquired if they would be interested in creating some tooling for spline weights. I sent them a Waterline and K&E weight and they created a crossbreed from the two of them. They wanted some recognition and asked us if they could include our name when marketing them, resulting in the Westlawn/Elkhorn Spline Weight. Westlawn does not sell or make any profit from these spline weights rather we direct all inquires directly to Elkhorn. We pursued this only to provide our students with an option to purchase new quality ducks rather than making their own or searching endlessly for used ones. I tried to get some myself years ago from YDS but they never seemed to be able to keep them in stock. I finally beg a retired designer for 6 he had sitting on his window sill. When I came to work at Westlawn this was at the top of my list. I did get a free set from the guys as a thank-you, they tell me response has been fantastic! I am very pleased with the results and recommend them to all.

[ChrisF]

Melting lead gives off deadly neurotoxic vapor and is dangerous to all in the vicinity. But I've done it in my foolish youth. If you must unleash molten steaming death and dementia on yourself and your loved ones:
Plaster can work as a mold but IMHO is only good for about four parts before it falls apart. So make a simple wood plug, nicely varnished; then you can easily make 3 molds for a run of 12 weights. Also you can play with the shape -- mine are sperm whales with curled tails. Plaster must be utterly dry, like left in the sun for a week or baked all day in the oven as has been mentioned. Bang together small wood boxes to support the plaster, with about 1" of plaster all around the plug. Don't forget to make the plug a little deeper than the weights so it can stick up above the plaster, and don't ask me how I know this <g>.
Melt lead outdoors only !!!!! and don't overheat it or stand downwind. An old pot on a camp stove works fine -- something with a good handle. Destroy the pot after, so nobody cooks chili in it by mistake.
Bondo imperfections and coat finished weights with wrinkle-finish paint for grip, with sheet cork or felt bottoms. Or coat the weight with liquid electrical tape or plier handle coating and set on waxed paper to dry.
Sharpened brass or steel "L" hooks can be cast in (tricky) or threaded into large pilot holes. Drilling lead is not as easy as you might think: it's grabby stuff and plates the drill and galls up and busts bits. Greasing the drill bits and freezing the lead both help. Clear chips often and take it easy.
Personally, I like having a mix of different weights, 2.5 to 5 lbs.

[gonzo]

I solved the problem of tight curves by making beaks of different lengths on my weights. I cast them all the same shalpe. Usually, because the beaks are the same length, the body of the wieghts interfere. This way, they are staggered.

[chandler]

Originally Posted by Willallison

I tried making some a month or two back.
Problem was I only had some pretty big ingots to melt down.
I did this (one at a time in a pot). Unfortunately it was so heavy that when I picked it up, the handle broke, sending molten lead all over the place!!
Once I got over that little epsiode I discovered that my molds weren't very good - so I'm on the hunt for something better - any suggestions?.....

I have had great luck making my own weights. I made the molds from modeling clay then set the mold in 90 weight drywall compound...the mold set in saran wrap to keep it from sticking.
The mold, I set in tupper ware ..I made 3 however 1 would have worked as after pouring lead into them they just seemed to get harder.
I used a turkey cooker and cast iron frying pan to melt and pour the lead. Fortunately I have a good source for lead as I am a house builder and usually have lead left from chimneys etc.
The saran wrap leaves lots of voids but they can easily be removed by using drywall compound to smooth it out. Be sure everything has fully cured before trying to pour any lead

[chandler]

Drill a hole and epoxy a piece of copper wire in the hole..it's adjustable and plenty strong..

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Melting lead gives off deadly neurotoxic vapor and is dangerous to all in the vicinity. But I've done it in my foolish youth. If you must unleash molten steaming death and dementia on yourself and your loved ones:
Plaster can work as a mold but IMHO is only good for about four parts before it falls apart. So make a simple wood plug, nicely varnished; then you can easily make 3 molds for a run of 12 weights. Also you can play with the shape -- mine are sperm whales with curled tails. Plaster must be utterly dry, like left in the sun for a week or baked all day in the oven as has been mentioned. Bang together small wood boxes to support the plaster, with about 1" of plaster all around the plug. Don't forget to make the plug a little deeper than the weights so it can stick up above the plaster, and don't ask me how I know this <g>.
Melt lead outdoors only !!!!! and don't overheat it or stand downwind. An old pot on a camp stove works fine -- something with a good handle. Destroy the pot after, so nobody cooks chili in it by mistake.
Bondo imperfections and coat finished weights with wrinkle-finish paint for grip, with sheet cork or felt bottoms. Or coat the weight with liquid electrical tape or plier handle coating and set on waxed paper to dry.
Sharpened brass or steel "L" hooks can be cast in (tricky) or threaded into large pilot holes. Drilling lead is not as easy as you might think: it's grabby stuff and plates the drill and galls up and busts bits. Greasing the drill bits and freezing the lead both help. Clear chips often and take it easy.
Personally, I like having a mix of different weights, 2.5 to 5 lbs.

I just recently made my ducks per the July/August 1994 issue of Wooden Boat. These cost me $11.59ea in materials, one full saturday, and a few brain cells to lead fumes. I have since used them and I am very satisfied with the results. The one difference is that I attempted to add the "bills" after the fact. It worked, but I now know that lead is not fun to drill into (5 drill bits later)

I'd post pictures, but I can't remember my username/password to login and include an attachment (see brain cell reference, above)

Steven Roberts

[edneu]

Check out these spline weights.

http://www.pranos.com/boatsofwood/lofting_ducks.htm