Small Kayak for Backwater Canals ?

hey Ancient_Kayaker,

It ain't getting any complicated at all.
It looks it's getting better day by day as you and other members throw light into the making of a kayak.

:: NO KAYAK IS NOT AVAILABLE READILY :: here in India.
Only a couple of websites import and sell, which are way too damn expensive and are only plastic mould kayaks mostly Sit On Top I have seen.

I think knowing about the theory, understanding the principles and building one slowly, making mistakes and learning makes me more confident on the Boat.

I will take my time to research the theory, and understand what I want, in the kind of waters I would be navigating with your help. Then plunge into building one.

To do that, you guys have to guide me through patiently, understanding that I'm not a boat builder or any expert. So far it has been really overwhelming response, I love the way you guys have slowly stuffed so much knowledge into my head and a lot of confidence.

Availability of material, and research for material is the first step, and when the material is decided, procuring the same and starting work is just a little time away.

Looking forward to more info and tips and a lot of encouragement from you guys.,

now some Doubts:

1. Plywood: - I saw some ply in the morning, go bonkers at my dad's house due to flooding. It was the plywood plank that was laid under a Cot that was ruined so badly I got scared seeing it. [my dad's house is now marooned in hip deep water due to storm and heavy rain lashing the city, a Ford car and a Daewoo Matiz car are fully drowned in the flood water!!!] Wish I had built my Kayk before the floods!!

Would Ply do good on a boat? Some serious doubts started to linger in my mind.

2. Found some very Light wood (looking like cedar) strong and resists water in the same house, that started to float from under some packages. Wonder what wood this was, will find out soon.

3. A kayak certainly has a Sharp Chine, as far I have seen. Are there rounded Chine Kayaks made? I would prefer a good tracking, and navigate in winding canals. What is the type of Chine needed then?

4. Do I need a rocker, if so how much rocker.? How do I achieve in bamboo.??

5. No rapids, No speed, no waves made by other boats, virtually a no-mans-canal!! How stable (or unstable) would my Kayak be when there is a motorboat making waves around? (a rare occurrence, only if i decide to paddle in the boat house).

 

I am very sorry to read about the floods: the awful happening in Mumbai/Bombay has overwhelmed the international news here. I hope that you and your family have not suffered too much from either event.

Plywood for boats is usually marine ply, made to BS1088 which sets standards for the veneers, glue, voids, and resistance to water which are quite stringent. There are other good ply types around, but most ply quality is not adequate for use on the outside of a boat where it is exposed to water for long periods and may delaminate. having said that, if the ply is solid and you paint or varnish it well it would probably be OK for the frames (transverse members) of a skin boat. Such a light boat is usually taken out of the water after use and is not left to soak. Suitable thickness: 1/4 inch bare minimum may need reinforcing, 1/2 inch OK but rather heavy.

If you have Light lumber (solid wood cut to dimensions) that is strong and resists water it is probably suitable. If it seems that the boat will end up significantly lighter than the designer intended, you can increase the thickness of the stringers (longitudinal members) a little. Check to see the behaviour of the wood as it dries out, it should not twist or warp excessively.

ps, don't forget you will need a double-bladed paddle for a kayak


There are kayaks with rounded hulls such as molded boats and cedar strip boats which do not have chines. Skin boat and ply boats have chines. Chine is the nautical term meaning a longitudinal edge under the waterline where 2 planks are joined or the skin passes over a longitudinal frame member or stringer. A hard chine is a sharp corner, a soft chine is rounded off somewhat.

Rocker is just the bottom curvature of the boat viewed from the side. Zero rocker means the bottom is straight. Negative rocker, or a concave curve, is undesirable and is usually a sign of a damaged boat. Tracking and manouverability are compromises and somewhat opposites; for winding canals a long boat with arrow-like tracking would be a problem and manouverability would be more important. Since chines aid tracking, a chine hull for such an application would typically have more rocker to aid manouvering, perhaps 2 inches, compared with a rounded hull that might have less than half that much. However, it's a matter of how the boat "feels" in the water and highly subjective.

The shape of a skin-over-frame boat and its rocker is defined by the shapes of the frames and their spacing. The frames are placed on a strongback to hold them firmly in place during the building process; when the stringers are bent over the frames and fastened they take up the shape of the hull automatically. It is much simpler than it sounds.

Starting with a known design will give you whatever the designer intended in the way of stability; most designers are happy to discuss their designs so don't be afraid to ask. A really unstable boat can be improved with small floats or sponsons along the gunnels.

Being somewhat of a maverick I subscribe to the JGOWI philosophy (Just Get On With It) for matters that do not involve great cost and risk to life; my first 2 boats were my own designs built using door skin ply, a very light but poor quality ply intended for strictly indoor use. The designs were not very good, but it sufficed for the short life I had in mind for these boats, and allowed me to develop my own ideas of design and construction for very little cash. Remember, you can always build another to a different design, with other materials, and learn as you go. Once you have a grasp of the fundamentals, there is not reason why you cannot modify a design to suit your own needs. With a skin-over-frame boat, if the frame is lashed some portions of it can be reused in the next boat.

 

For a first time builder of a boat such as the one you describe, I suggest that you give a serious look at the "Six Hour Canoe". This is a design for a dead simple but entirely adequate boat. It is made from Just two sheets of 4" x 8' ply. The boat was contrived several years ago by Mike O'Brien, one of the editors of Wooden Boat Magazine. It has since been used as a project build for numerous youth organizations. As the name implies it can be built (maybe) in six hours. It is that simple. Finish work is quite another matter. That will take considerably more than six hours, depending on how fancy you wish to seal and paint it. It can be built and be ready for launching, paint and all, in a week to ten days. Most of which is time expired while waiting for glue to set and paint to dry.

Though it is called a canoe, it is kayak like, in that one uses a double paddle for propulsion. It is about 15'-6" in length and 28" beam at the sheer line. There is a paperbound book that walks the builder through every detail. The book is cheap, around $15 I think. That brings us to another subject; The paddle. The Six Hour plans include building ones own paddle. Scrap from the ply sheets allow for material. Total cost should be well within your $100 budget. BUT, after a few outings you will realize that a high quality paddle is desirable. A good paddle will cost at least as much as the whole damned boat, and can even run into several hundred dollars..Carbon fibre and all that don't you know. Nevertheless you can get along with the home built paddle that is on the plans, wherin the paddle will cost two or three dollars.

If you want an exotic kayak, then this is not the one. But if you want an entirely adequate kayak for enjoying liesurely trips on those canals then this is a good bet.

P.S. The manner, in which you write, suggests that you may be a westerner. The events at hotels in the last few days cause many of us to be concerned for new found friends in India. We have had our tragic lessons here in the US and, despite what the crazies think, we do care for people elsewhere.

 

Sorry - Ashamed - Helpless

I feel Sorry - Ashamed - Helpless for the act of the terrorists, who seemed to have infiltrated through the waters into south Mumbai, lucky that I was not in Mumbai/Bombay during these attacks, far away some 1500KMs south of Mumbai, but caught in the flood here.!!

It is a security lapse, certainly they have managed to find foreign(US, Israelis and UK) tourists and nail them down. Seems to have been an extended attack of these citizens on less secure or unexpected land! Guess no one can anticipate such attacks and make security measures?

Wonder where this is all leading to? Fear grips!

Flooding:
Reserve Police, Firemen and the Army men have come to rescue people who were flooded. Attached are some photographs of the assembling of the Inflatables.

 

Sat images of the Canals

Some Sat images from Wikimapia of the canals - to understand the layout.

 

I don't want to highjack this thread for a discussion on terrorism, but while they seem to have targeted foreign tourists, the number of people reported as killed far exceeds the deaths of Israelis, Americans and other westerners. As always, it is the unfortunate standers-by who suffer most in these indiscriminate acts of hatred.

 

Collateral Damage - do we call it?

The targets to how far my brain can think were:

1. Well Off Indians,
2. Israelis
3. Americans and
4. English

They have asked for passport, and IDs before killing.
They have kept people standing (17 of them) in a line and made a call to someone and asked if they can proceed with the killing(massacre) and executed it.

1. Cafe Leopold is a cafe where the average Indian walks by watching the 3 dozen tables fill with Whites, it was not a place for the common man. Leopold was the first target of shooting early during the attack.

2. Taj was not for the common man, Taj Palace was occupied by the worlds biggest money makers and decision makers. Wonder how many of them have lost life, only to wait and see the list come out with some identification in a few days.

I read, a bank chairman was stopped and asked who he was, and what he does for a living - he replied he was a teacher from bangalore and the terrorist asked him "how a teacher could afford to be at the taj Palace?" and prepared to shoot when a grenade exploded near them and the man escaped to tell the story!

Damn - scary.
Still to see what news comes out and how the plot unfolded.

National Security Guards came to the scene after 9.30 hours! - Dhud! shame.
Operation was over when the last man standing was taken by them and to find no hostages were left alive, and every floor has dead bodies and still counting!

I hate to see the TV now!

PS: Me too don't want to hijack this thread - may be we should discuss these in the open forum. (though this event has some relation to boats we don't want it to be in the boat discussion area!!) - I couldn't help replying. Lets drop it here and continue with the boat building.

Will find some more info on material soon, once the flood recedes and get back to you guys.

bye,
MS

 

My dear MS: I have no words for this, but others might want to read and respond to your news. The news on the topic here is very trite and parochial, we do not get the full picture until days later if at all. I suggest you repost your information in the Post Tsunami forum, which is probably the most appropriate; it is at:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/post-tsunami/

I for one will be looking for it.

-AK

 

Hey Messabout, thanks for the inputs..

- thanks for the suggestion, wold have a look.

- Let me build the Kayak First, then will look for the Paddle.! I think I can procure some fiber paddle if it gets complicated.

- I certainly do not want an exotic kayak, would love to build one in the due course.

 

Please look for in the Tsunami thread!

As AK likes, I will keep posting the daily updates on what is the Indian Gov. up to, and how the story unfolds in the post Tsunami thread as mentioned above by AK.

MS

 

I found some information at http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/ExprncBldgngBaidarka.html#RTFToC8

It has details on how to attach the skin; here it is 15 oz nylon and hypalon is also mentioned. Here's another that mentions cotton duck sealed with paint: http://www.qsl.net/wa1urb/98.html

If you google skin & kayaks you will get lots of sites.

As a ps, when wondering which materials are suitable, remember that the Inuit people who developed these fascinating craft over hundreds of years used whatever came to hand, mostly the skin of seals and wood washed up by the sea.

 

Inspiring Inuits!

Yes AK,

Inuit Kayaks and their techniques are a very strong driving force for me to re-invent the kayak and the simple things to use. Rather buying a fancy Kayak for $1000

I plan to go some 100 KMs south of Chennai/Madras to a place called Marakkanam which is said to be the Boat Builder's village. I think I can get some idea and some simple techniques to learn from them. Should spend some time and watch them work.

Will update with pictures when I do the above.
Here is a picture of a simple improvised "Kattu Maram" which in Tamil Language means "Tied Wood" which also serves as the origin of the word "Catamaran" aquired by the English during their rule over India.

 

some interesting shots from Kerala's backwaters. "House Boats"

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/370771314_0d8beb1fea_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/2675908471_4b484ed01e.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2378981437_6f90f28d12.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2552566183_e84046f7ba.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2014486395_50bfb87362.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miffymoo2/2239162039/

 

Some lovely shots there; the canoe is alive and well and living in India! Some of the scenes are the kinds of places I would like to visit by boat; they made my paddling arm itch!

I particularly liked the "Indian-ness" of the houseboats, if I may say that without appearing patronising in any way. They are so utterly unlike the prosaic houseboats I am used to. It would be fun to tie up one of those alongside the waterside general store on my favourite lake and watch the reaction of the other boaters.

It looked like the wicker roof had been built separately on land and was being hauled onto its intended hull. Would that have been custom-built by a specialist or is that just normal practise? I would have assumed the roof would be built onto the hull after launching.

The "Kattu Maram" has beautiful lines. It reminds me strongly of the wood dugout canoes formerly made on the West Coast of canada by the Haida and other indigenous people. Some were very large indeed and works of art as well as seaworthy craft. The Canadian canoe museum is only a 2 hour drive from my home. On my last visit I met the new general manager, John Summers, who showed a friend and me around the Collection Center, which is separate from the public areas of the museum. It is a vast building with an awesome collection of 600 boats of all descriptions, wood and birchbark canoes, kayaks, dugouts, war canoes; mind-boggling. What the mind and hands of man can do with simple resources and tools!

Here are some links to boat museum sites:- http://groups.msn.com/woodenboatbuilder/yourwebpage1.msnw
The canadian canoe museum is at:- http://www.canoemuseum.net/default.asp

 

AK,

the Kaattumaram has always raised doubts in me from my childhood.
Always!
When I'm at the beach with my family, I used to wonder how this piece of log keeps the men safe! When huge boats sink and I have read stories, how these men put trust on a few logs! that look so skeptic!

Still I look amazed when I watch the fishermen venture into the sea with the Kattumaram and how they jump on to it after there is a big wave to take them in!

The Kettuvallam(hbouse boat) is unique to the Kerala part of India.
Kerala is a very very small state in India, but has the most number of backwaters and river canals. Though these boats are purely tourist now, used to be carriers of Rice and other merchandise early days.

They build the roof part on the hull sometimes on land, sometimes after the launch. I have seen both types. They improvise on it, as the requirements arise. The tourists [mostly foreigners] stay on these boats, for days together sometimes, locals cook for them on the boat, they catch fresh fish and cook as they like. The scenery is breathtaking, sunrise and sunsets are magical, and the best part is, where you can reach in these boats - roads cannot!!

The actual Kattumaram looks like this:

http://www.uwa-pro.de/projekte/bilder/05-s.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikithecreator/3008844433/
http://www.kodimunai.com/images/kodi_kattumaram.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2044/1574563943_28f00b13ed.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oochappan/370660704/