Shape Up Or Ship Out !!

[Willallison]

I have lamented a number of times at the loss of one or other of our more prominent and knowledgeable contributors. I must sadly now report on the departure of PAR - one the most prolific and well-respected members of this forum. His loss will be felt by us all....

No... he's not dead!

...Just REALLY PISSED OFF at the lack of decorum that is becoming increasingly common.

We don't always agree with each other - nor should we. But let's all have the decency to 'speak' nicely to one another. When you post in a condescending manner, you demean nobody more than yourself. If I've been guilty of it in the past, let me publicly apologise and commit to trying not to do so in the future.

Play nice. Or piss off!

[nukisen]

I do agree!
Hope I didn´t participated in the bad as I now know important posters have quited. Many with professional answers and with the best knowledge has quited. Feels like this forum now have a desiese.

Damn!

I do respect the quitings! But I now feel a missing in my heart!

Damn again!

//Janne

[Gaffers]

I must admit that I have felt that while many of the comments here are helpful there are some who without provocation tear into other members. I refer back to my request for advice over a hollow mast some weeks back which quite frankly I regretted posting after reading some of the replies. Of all he forum sites I am a member of this one is by far the most aggressive and quite frankly it puts me off contributing my opinion.

"Everyone is allowed to be wrong, that is the fundemental right of a person in a democracy"

[waikikin]

Thats a real shame Will, Par has been the voice of reason on so many occasions, giving sensible & reliable opinions that you could trust, & expressing the same in understandable terms.
Fortunatly we live in world as masters of our own destiny.
He will be missed.
All the best wishes Par from Jeff.

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by Willallison

When you post in a condescending manner, you demean nobody more than yourself. If I've been guilty of it in the past, let me publicly apologise and commit to trying not to do so in the future.

Couldn't have put it any better myself!

But I am tired of the growing number of "students" who think that "helping" means doing their homework for them!
Here's an idea: How about creating a forum for students? The students can pose their questions there and those who do not mind doing other peoples homework can do it there! And those who do not can just skip that forum!

PAR will be missed!

[Jeff]

In life, I try and give people a great deal of understanding and latitude and have a thick skin. But in hindsight, I regret that the forum rules were not enforced more strictly in 2009 as the "disease" of disrespect and rudeness and stubbornness of some new members got out of control. It is very sad to lose a member like PAR due to discussion not running a straighter course.

Matt said it eloquently and succinctly, so I hope he does not mind me quoting him here:

Originally Posted by marshmat

Thus, I encourage all to adopt some form of the following:
- I will only post material relevant to the topic of the thread, otherwise I will start a new thread for it.
- I will only answer questions if I have something helpful to say.
And perhaps most importantly:
- I will recognize that behind each screen name and avatar is a real person, with a real life, friends and family, who deserves my respect even if I don't agree with his/her opinions.

I ask everyone to help to refocus the forums on the positive and helpful environment that we have historically had.

From now on, I ask everyone to be more mindful of the forum rules always. No more attacks, or insults, or jabs at your fellow forum members. Keep threads informational, constructive, and on topic.

I ask everyone to try and set an example from here forward.

I ask people new to the forum to always be respectful and appreciative to those who take time from their own work to help answer your questions. If you are a student or beginner, please be mindful of what you are asking, ask specific questions, give your background and what work you have done, and always be polite and thankful to those who are taking their time away from paid work to help you.

I ask everyone to please be respectful to one another even in disagreement as there are many diverse backgrounds here.

Even with an uncertain economy that has many on edge, I think we can have an oasis here if we focus on our common interests and refocus on constructive discussion.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by sorenfdk

But I am tired of the growing number of "students" who think that "helping" means doing their homework for them!
Here's an idea: How about creating a forum for students? The students can pose their questions there and those who do not mind doing other peoples homework can do it there! And those who do not can just skip that forum!

This is definitely something that needs to be figured out. Historically one great aspect of our site here is that it's allowed students or beginners to have a way to ask questions or gain guidance from a diverse group of professionals who graciously share their knowledge. Everyone starts somewhere, and allowing this connection is a great thing. In previous years though I think new people coming to the forum in general had better etiquette and were more respectful, realistic, and focused. This past year, as you say, we have more beginners asking impossible questions, and more students who are not respectful or grateful for help but rather have unrealistic expectations and attitude. And this in turn makes the professionals be ever shorter with the next new person. If we segregated by forum, would we do this only for the main design forum or also for categories such as stability? Even if only the main design forum initially, this could help alleviate some of the conflict and frustration, though unfortunately it would also mean the serious, studious, and respectful student is now cut off from those such as yourself who won't see their intelligent question now relegated to the beginner area. It's extremely unfortunate when a few bad apples ruin things for the bunch.

[Crag Cay]

And this in turn makes the professionals be ever shorter with the next new person.

We have to be careful not to assign the blame for this on any one particular group or another. We can all become irritated or frustrated, but no one forced 'the professionals' to become short tempered and often aggressively rude with those they clearly despise! There's plenty of professionals on here who never allow themselves to become short with others, who never rely on a constant screaming of 'I'm a Naval Architect' to intimidate others, but choose instead to add their contribution succinctly and leave it at that.

Those that have recently flounced off in a hissy fit, need to accept some responsibility for their own actions. Their behaviour was often well below that expected of anyone let alone a 'professional'. Whilst I accept this forum (in common with all others), does have its share of the delusional and even the clearly unhinged, it must be possible to deal with them without resorting to the bullying seen from some of the same people who are now claiming to be the 'injured parties'. I think it's intolerable to hear that there have been people with legitimate questions deterred from contributing because of the wholly unacceptable attitude of those in the self appointed 'professional Mafiosi'.

If we want this forum to regain it usefulness as a place to share knowledge, then it's incumbent on ALL to behave differently. Those who think it merely requires contrition on the part of some to allow others to return in full majesty, I'm afraid are deluded.

[gunship]

Here's an idea: How about creating a forum for students? The students can pose their questions there and those who do not mind doing other peoples homework can do it there! And those who do not can just skip that forum!

As a "student" myself, i often find myself looking for threads concerning simple things concerning boats, as well as somewhere where you can discuss theories, concepts and ideas on a simpler level than the very construction oriented threads we have currently.

a "concepts/ideas" and/or a "students" section would be ideal, i think. However the homework should in that case have another subsection, as i dont want everyone telling me to do my homework when i dont even get homework! (i do not take class about boat design). i just want to be able to post a concept design and get constructive critisism.

[CDK]

Jeff, I agree with you in general, but to some people antagonizing others or ventilating weird ideas is a way of life.
You cannot alter that with some fatherly words.

How about canceling the login name as soon as the rep points are subzero ? It doesn't solve everything but it may help a bit.

[RHP]

I guess the Thailand Multihull thread that descended into farce last year set a precedent for people being less than respéctful to eachother. Its a great shame.

[chandler]

Why can't we all just be friends. If a post comes up that bothers you ignore it.
Don't be critical of others "opinions".
Constructive criticism is a good thing, negative criticism just pisses everybody off.
Keep in mind that most in this forum are not experts, many of the experts in here are not as expert as they think they are, those that are as expert as their credentials make them should be teachers, not nay sayers.
It's a forum for exchange of ideas not a debate for experts with conflicting ideas or ideals.

[peter radclyffe]

perhaps its good to think we are all students & teachers, a little courtesy goes a long way

[TollyWally]

I don't think our big problem here is a few students looking for a last minute fix or an easy out on their homework assignments. I think Jeff put it well "It's extremely unfortunate when a few bad apples ruin things for the bunch." Indeed unfortunate, taking Jeff's observation to it's logical conclusion, wise husbandry would cull the bad apples and air out the barrel lest the whole thing turns to rot.

[Easy Rider]

Does anybody know if PAR Quit and just stomped off or did he get excomunicated?

Easy