Self steering with steering oars?

[Alex.A]

Is it possible to set up some kind os self steering system for use with a steering oar? Some kind of wind vane? Or a vane that has enough rudder of its own to steer alone?

[messabout]

Alex; Of course it is possible to do what you suggest. Possible is one thing, practical is quite another. I take it that you are referring to the fundamental stering device sometimes called a sweep oar.

Describe your aim with a little more detail and perhaps someone here will have ideas

[Alex.A]

Yes - basic steering oar/s..... sweep oar. Thinking larger boat - say 30' - single oar. Balance on sails - probably ketch rigged - downwind. Into the wind - same but use oar as a daggerboard?
Looking at something like a vane tho....

[gonzo]

Why do that?

[messabout]

Good question Gonzo. I do not have the answer but there may be a suitable one. The OP needs to tell us more about his unique requirements.

Back in the day, I was the coxswain for a Monomoy Surf Boat. ...Double banked, 10 oarsmen, double ender, about 8M Loa. The grunts did the work and I gave the commands. Good duty I called it. The sweep oar is a very efficient steering device, It is versatile too. The sweep was/is capable of propelling the boat sideways when stopped or at very low speeds. A new steerer can be installed in seconds if the need arises, There is no danger of grounding and possibly damaging the rudder when there is no rudder. Here in Florida, the big oar might be handy for smacking alligators out of the way too. I confess that I have never utilized it in that way. In a pinch, the sweep can be utilized to scull the boat. The Monomoy routinely made beach landings, stern to, through breaking surf. Not an option with a conventional rudder layout. The sweep oar is also very cheap to obtain and/or replace. Sweeps are usually long and stout. In an emergency a spare could be used for a jury rig mast or boom. The simple oar has a lot going for it.

I'd still opt for a conventional rudder setup if I needed to have a self steering device. I reckon that the sweep could be fitted with some sort of self tending equipment but it seems to me that the complexity would defeat the utility and simplicity of the oar as steerer.

[Bill PKS]

Alex,

An observation from an experience, and , not to intrude on your Thread, another question that may or may not be relevant.
>> Another "take" on Steering Oars ( from a previous Thread) // Some years ago I went sailing with a fellow from Hilo on a polynesian cat. He used a paddle over the stern-quarter to steer. Pulled straight up to come up, and pushed straight down to fall off. It was a totally unexpected lesson on balance of CLE/ CLR. (While I "Knew" it and used it in balancing sails, I didn't really "get it" until then.) That amplified the importance of setting a rhumb line course with a movable CB or sail balance and only use a rudder as a trim tab. Somewhere in there there might be point that that might be relevant to your question?
>> The Intrusive Question// I much much prefer a tiller to a wheel, but am planning a Center Cockpit which makes a Tiller very impractical.
So, I'm thinking about a rudder with Quadrant connected by cables to a Whipstaff arrangement. ( Erickson had a similar Idea several years ago >> tried to make the top of the staff look like a wheel, for those that think wheels are more " Nautical" .)
I have used tiller lines to steer a Spritsail Skiff, and they give relatively good " feel". Obviously, the geometry of the arc of the Quadrant and travel of the top and bottom of the Whipstaff would require careful planning, but the Erickson product seems to indicate the geometry can work.
Now the tricky part.
Also thinking about inserting a hydraulic steering linkage into the system, using a Tug boat type toggle..for in the cabin steering under power, and autopilot.
I know all my buddies will laugh at a the Whipstaff arm sticking up out of the cockpit.. but that was around long before wheels,< (although maybe not as well connected)
Just fish food for thought, although it may be more confusion than help.
Bill PKS
PS: I can post a diagram if you like?

[Alex.A]

Please do post it.
Thinking polynesian oar for simplicity - so complexity in self steering may be self defeating?
Know nothing at all about vanes - is there one that steers via it's own "rudder'?

[Bill PKS]

Alex,

Lots of Steering vanes, devices and rigs ,, and a number of examples and comments in other Threads.
J. Slocum simply tied off the wheel ( Or was it a tiller?) and balanced the sails to hold the course he wanted. As I recall, he commented on long distances covered in the Indian Ocean, never touching the wheel. ( Generally you need more sail options than on an sloop to do that.)
I think the the Polynesian Paddle comments are simply to point out that steering can be done in many ways.
To my thinking , the way with the least Drag, and best feel is preferred.
Attached is a very very rough sketch of Steering lines used on Spritsail Skiff's along the North Carolina coast.. and I'm sure elsewhere.
Also an Idea Sketch of a Whipstaff connected with a Rudder Quadrant, in hope that some rudder "Feel" would be transmitted,, although it's doubtful.
Seems to me, the best self steering means is, in large part, greatly affected by the hull and rig.

Bill PKS.

[ancient kayaker]

It seems to me the oar will require more energy to operate than a rudder. This places a heavier load on the self-steering mechanism.