Schooner Lead

Hi....
I'm in process of designing a small boat (30') schooner rigged.
Her specs are as follows
LOD 30'
LWL 26'
Beam 10'
Disp 12,000
Draft 4-1/2'
S/A 520 sq. ft.

My question is in regards CLR and CE lead.
I've read many different opinions regarding these and what gives best balance.
Currenty her CLR is at about .6 of LWL and her CE lead is 4%. Any inputs?

It seems schooners are designed to have little CE lead. Is this just a result of the rig?.....Does this not result in a lot of weather helm?

Thanks,
Bob

 

That's a tough one, because it depends so much on the rest of the design. Is it a traditional full keel? If so you have more latitude. Are there any other near examples of your design that are sailing that you can compare? If the boat is stiff you can get away with less lead than if she is tender. 30' is kind of a short schooner rig, so I'm guessing this is based on a larger design. There's nothing like empirical data, so maybe even look at sloops with underwater profiles.

Craig

 

Yes, It is a full keel boat and should be pretty stiff.
I realize the whole opinions/arguements about 30 ft. being too short for a schooner rig......but I just can't resist.......
Not aware of any existing boats like it.....The lines resemble a "pilot" shape......wineglass transom.....deep reverse sections.
I would like to make sure her helm is reasonably balanced....sure don't want to feel like I have to wrestle the boat to keep it going where wanted.


I just finished a half hull of the boat last night......After making it I think there's too much hollow forward .....Kind of looks like her forward sections disappear to rapidly.....Hmmmmm back to the computer......

Any thoughts/opinions on "hollows" and there effects?

Bob

 

Bob,
I work in a professional design office, but we don't (unfortunately) get to do traditional schooners. That kind of stuff is reserved for my "at home" design office. I have spent many hours drooling over some of the same books you might have (Chapelle, Good Boats, Alden's Designs). 30' feet is short for a schooner design, but who cares?
I'd love to take a look at your design, if you don't mind. I work in AutoCAD and Rhino.
Craig

 

As a designer, schooner fan, and Bluenoser (a person from Lunenburg County, Nova Scotia), I wholly agree with cgorton: "I'd love to take a look at your design, if you don't mind. I work in AutoCAD and Rhino."

Michael

 

Hello....
Thanks......I'll get lines/images posted tonight....
I'm at work and don't have them with me......
I started this design a while ago......am anxious to get building.....but holding back to make sure the hull design is "matured"....
I look forward to any and all advice/opinions.....
I can say she was inspired by a small Pilot boat designed by Stadel, although beamier.....
Her intended use will be local sailing for a while (lake) and then extended cruises on the East coast.....

I currently use Prolines and DesignCad......might try Rhino soon....

Bob

 

I use Prolines as well. If you can export a 3D dxf file I could do a quick rendering for you.

 

I have 3D renders in DesignCad....Although I'm sure not as pretty as thoughs that can be produced by Rhino.......I'll try and post those as well.......
As I said....I'm real excited and anxious to get building.....I spent the last several years building for other people......now it's my turn!!!!!
I have sailed on numerous small schooners......a 27 ft. Atkins "Coot"....A 36 ft. Atkins - similar in shape to mine......a great boat....spent a week taking her from R.I. to Maine......Needles to say after the trip I came away with the "I have to get me one of those" feeling.....
I get a lot flack from fellow "boaties" saying....
"30 ft. is just too small for a schooner"....
"You can't have anything but a loose footed fore"
"Don't even think about double headsails...too small"
Blah...Blah....Blah....

Yeah, they may be right in a lot of points.....but I'm not trying to go anywhere fast...or care how fast I'll go.....I love the schooner rig....pulling lines.....experimenting with various sails.....and at the end of the day sit and admire with a little rum......

Bob

 

For those interested, might I suggest visiting the website of the Nova Scotia Schooner Association at http://www.nsschooner.ca where you will see photos of several schooners, both gaff and marconi rigged, in the under-forty-foot category. Several were working fishing boats at the outset of their lives and later converted to pleasure use, some are purpose-built as yachts.

 

Wow.....Thanks for the link!!!! Very inspiring......nice images of some neat boats......I can only imagine having a "fleet" of small schooners!!!!!!
Bob

 

Schooner Images

OK....here's a try at attaching an image....

 

Schooner Images cont'd

another