Scantling Spreadsheets

[Willallison]

Does anyone if there are spreadsheets available for determining the scantlings for recreational craft?.... preferably metric

[sorenfdk]

You'll find a lot of interesting stuff here:

http://www.nmma.org/certification/te...dex.asp?bhcp=1

And if you click on "2004" and scroll down a bit, you'll find a spreadsheet with the ISO way of calculating scantlings. But please remember: This standard is not approved yet!

[Willallison]

Thanks Soren,
Do you know if there are any explanatory notes on how to use it?
For instance, in the FRP Powerboat spreadsheet, there is an input field for "Dynamic Load Factor", which according to the pop-up is calculated from formula 4. Is this done somewhere within the spreadsheet, or must it be done manually, and the relevant figure entered?
And again on the next page, fields such as t1, t2 etc - must all these be entered manually - it certainly appears so....
As you can see - I'm not exactly an excell genius, so any help would be most appreciated....

[sorenfdk]

I haven't seen any other notes than the standard itself.
Lately, I have mostly been using Lloyd's SSC-rules and the ABS Guide, so I have no experience with these spreadsheets.
You can also download another program that is based on the ISO Standard here: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/icnn.logiciel. I have no experience with this, either.
If I only knew a little bit more about Excel...

[Willallison]

Ok Thanks Soren - after your original post I searched a bit for the ISO scantling calcs and came across a program based on the standard - it may even be the same as the one you posted above - put out by ICOMA to verify the scantlings given by the new standard. I'll have a play with it and then see if I can post a link to it.
Are there spreadsheets around for doing the scantlings in accord with ABS etc?

[Willallison]

Indeed it is the same link ( http://perso.wanadoo.fr/icnn.logiciel/ )
On the face of it this should be a very user-friendly program. And whilst the results may only give compliance with the propsed standard, it should be uselful nonetheless.
Unfortunately, I can't get past the "Boat Principal Data" page!
I enter my vessel's principal dimensions - which are very much of normal form - and get some very strange pop-up suggesting that it should, for insytance have a draft of 65m, rather than the 0.5m that it does have!!

Has anyone else tried the program and had similar dramas? Am I doing something wrong?

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by Willallison

I enter my vessel's principal dimensions - which are very much of normal form - and get some very strange pop-up suggesting that it should, for insytance have a draft of 65m, rather than the 0.5m that it does have!!

Has anyone else tried the program and had similar dramas? Am I doing something wrong?

Wow - that should take care of any stability-related problems
I don't know of any spreadsheets, but there's a Spanish company that sells a very nice program called ABSORY. You can find them here: http://www.nautatec.com. We use it and we're quite happy with it.

[Willallison]

yes, no stability problems - and heaps of room for (underwater) accomodations!! According to the program, vessel speed should exceed 78 knotss to so she'll be big, deep speedy boat!!
Overnight I have done some digging and understand that the problem is that the program is written for french parameters, where comma's are used instead of decimal points. I have tried simply substituting comma's for decimal points, but suspect that I'll need to make some changes in control panel, as this didn't work either....

Incidentally - if anyone wants to download the program, you'd better hurry - I think they're going to delete it as a newer version is coming out in June ( but it will not be free...)

[BrettM]

Will,

Why not write your own. Since you are in Oz, get ahold of AS 4132.1 and AS 4312.3 for FRP stuff and go for it. For aluminium you need AS 4132.1 and AS 4132.2

I wrote my own several years ago and have been extending it ever since. My base xl file is about 1mb with all my own bells and whistles added. Unfortunately for you, I do not let this one out. Too much risk in my view and I use it commercially.

Brett

[Willallison]

You obviously haven't seen the extent of my excell skills Brett!! I have trouble enough using ones written by others ... but I am learning....
Thanks for the relevant standards too...

[Mikey]

I would very much like to check that ICOMA programme, but the link http://perso.wanadoo.fr/icnn.logiciel just takes me to a page with some information but no link to download.

I searched a bit on the internet and came up with a link to the same page - no download.

Can anyone lend a hand and post download link or, since it is a free trial version, the programme.

Thanks
Mikey

[Willallison]

When I made some enquiries regarding the strange numbers that I was getting, I received an email suggesting that I delete my program as it was no longer up-to-date, and that they would be removing the link to the existing program, with the intention of putting a new program up some time around June (but not for free...)

In the meantime I've come across what I believe is a better program anyway. It does ABS and DNV calcs, but not ISO. go to www.vectorply.com and then download vectorlam....

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by Willallison

In the meantime I've come across what I believe is a better program anyway. It does ABS and DNV calcs, but not ISO. go to www.vectorply.com and then download vectorlam....

Remember that these ABS and DNV calcs are for high speed craft.

[Mikey]

Just back from a short thip tp KL.
Thanks for the Vectorlam info Will, good programme.

Never mind that the calcs are for high speed craft. I plan to do scantlings according to ISO 12215-5. Latest version out is DIS_12215-5.3-E-_2004-12-18, that one is probably fairly near its completion by now, but also check against ABS in some areas, have read that the ABS standard is not adequate when it comes to slamming loads, have you heard anything about that?

Bad luck if the ISO standard were to change... but never mind, it will probably take something like another 2 years on top of my full time job before I can consider my <first> design ready so plenty of time to redo the scantlings

Mikey

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by Mikey

...have read that the ABS standard is not adequate when it comes to slamming loads, have you heard anything about that?

Some years ago, some WOR60's that were designed and built to ABS specs suffered from problems in the slamming area.
I'm not sure if these problems had anything to do with the ABS Guide. As I recall, they were mostly cases of core debonding, probably due to outgassing from the core.
Anyway, the Guide was revised after that, and I haven't heard about problems since then.