It's this sort of jobsworth approach by some council staff, with a total disregard to the need of the chap to make a living and or take the time to perform a proper risk assessment, that really pisses me off.
It's reminiscent of the council that banned back stroke in its swimming pool, for fear of people colliding with each other and getting hurt, or the council that banned hanging flower baskets because they represented a risk to people walking on pavements if they fell down, in terms of officialdom poking its nose where it isn't needed.
I wonder how many drowning incidents there had been in the history of hire boats being used on that lake? I wonder if the council bothered to look at the statistics for people drowning whilst out rowing hire boats on inland waters? My guess is they didn't, because if they had they'd have seen that the risk of drowning in such circumstances was exceedingly low, lower by far than something like riding a bicycle.
I'm using Solidworks. Not ideal for some aspects of boat design
and I don't think it has any ability do flow simulation for dragging a boat across the surface of the water.
I do remember my instructor demonstrating how it can produce graceful 3d shapes (he was doing exotic sword blades).
I'll try and find that feature. Once you get the hull shape SW has features like "up to surface" for extrusions and "offset Entities" in Drawing mode which would allow you to create exact dimensions of framing members which would conform to the inner hull shape.
Hey, Fast Fred.....
And why can't Stitch&Glue be beefed up using heavier plywood(and maybe some winches to bend it into place, and 1/8" thick #9 Safety Wire) and/or just using the S&G to form a hull and then adding layers of glass&resin, or sheet-foam and glass and resin? I figure the heaviness of the framing is independent from the hull, as it all comes later.
Last edited by Squidly-Diddly : 05-31-2011 at 02:23 PM. Reason: addendum
Have I ever mentioned that I'm glad I don't live in the UK?
Regulatory interference here in the good old US of A is bad enough. I suspect that over there, I'd be well into a long sentence for killing some local council sort of one kind or another, for trying to blindly enforce rules he has no understanding of whatsoever....
People are always talking about the good old days. But I was there, and I wasn't impressed.
RCD compliance for thamesboating.co.uk
I think i have found another issue with hireing out craft am i correct in thinking all craft have to be inspected after 4 years and if not craft cannot be hired or sold on?
Hired out a small skiff at Richmond for an hour a couple of days ago if got some good pics of old and new skiffs. I'll add to my site under other places to hire rowing boats.
Here you go, should give you chapter & verse, http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...ing/31609.aspx, the question arises why the hell do we bother!
Non-powered boats include sailing and rowing craft and, as I have had clarified by correspondence, purely solar powered electric craft (but not electric craft that require shore power or generators to charge batteries).
When you then look at what is required to use a rowing boat on the river the only thing legally needed is a non-powered registration, even insurance isn't compulsory (although running a hire business you would be daft not to have insurance and might well need it for business/public liability reasons anyway).
The RCD requirements for rowing boats in category D are really pretty simple, with no requirement as far as I can see for ongoing inspections (the four year inspection is for powered craft).
I think i have it
Well i think im onto something
The following are excluded from the scope of the RCD:
a) craft intended solely for racing, including rowing racing boats, labelled as such by the
b) canoes, kayaks, gondolas & pedalos.
c) sailing surfboards.
d) surfboards including powered surfboards.
e) original, and individual replicas of, historical craft designed before 1950, built
predominantly with original materials.
f) experimental craft provided they are not subsequently placed on the Community
g) craft or engines built for own use, provided they are not subsequently placed on the
Community market during a period of 5 years, from completion.
h) craft intended for commercial purposes (apart from boats used for hire, charter or
recreational boating training).
j) air cushion vehicles.
l) steam powered craft, fuelled by coal, coke, wood, oil or gas.
m) original and individual replicas of historical propulsion engines, which are based on a
pre-1950 design and fitted in craft referred to in e) or g).
I think Exclusion e should cover it, modern replacement materials are allowed under this so 6mm marine ply will be for planking , just woundering if i can use 24mm Marine ply for the keel laminated together to make... 48mm
As a back up i am going to create all the documentaion to comply with RCD
Using the following.
Design category D
D. SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small
bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to and including wind force 4
and significant wave heights up to and including 0.3m may be experienced, with
occasional waves of 0.5m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.
Modular choice A
Module A - Internal Production Control
This module is entirely self-assessment with no involvement of a Notified Body, or any other
Method for compliance Boat builders Standards*
I have a Form from the RYA "pre quotation data" and will be filling i in to see who much it will cost for a Non_mandatory stability assessment.
Craft identification is covered by contacting BFM wo will register you unique choice on number as a the builder.
As a row boat for hire company i will not be Selling the craft on the open market.
But as long as i follow the :
ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DESIGN AND
CONSTRUCTION OF CRAFT
It should not be impossible to work towards the CE approved tag
Just to clarify things:
The RCD compliance is only required by law at the moment you declare the boat 'finished' and place it on the market. In your case because they are not 'home built' your hireboat company will be the 'internal' customer for your boat building business.
As you say, CAT D is very straightforward and doesn't require any notified body.
However the requirement for your boats when they are in a hire fleet will be dictated by whoever is your licensing authority. Here in the Lakes it's the District Council, but on the Thames it could well be The EA. One of their requirements is bound to be some form of 3rd party insurance which in turn will mean that the insurance company could well have their own requirements.
Now sometimes these bodies may well say continued "compliance with CAT D" is a requirement for their insurance, but this is a form of shorthand and to ease administration by them. It however has nothing to do with the requirements of the RCD which become irrelevant in themselves as soon as the boat is first placed and sold into the market.
As you've seen from the other hire fleets you've looked at, you might be surprised how lax the licensing requirements could be.
I'v acquired one quote so far for insurance covering the basic aspects of the business including craft, the second bullet point must be where compliance is in effect.
Duties of Insured
To take all reasonable precautions to prevent loss or damage and to minimise it should it occur.
To comply with all statutory obligations and regulations.
To ensure that your premises and plant are sound, in good order and fit for purpose.
To keep your vessels in a seaworthy condition and in a safe place when not under way
To keep proper books of account.
To advise insurers of any change with regard to information provided by you or your agent for the purposes of obtaining this insurance.
To advise insurers truthfully of all facts known to you that are material to the risks they are undertaking.
Its a good point to check with your cover that all bases are covered in this section or you policy. i can only assume you must inform the Insurers of all aspects of you business so your not missing anything.
I haven't yet official found out who licences the businesses along the thames but am guessing its my Local Council , i'm planning to make a presentation to them some day soon.
Thanks for the Advice so far to all who are posting buy the way, the information, comments and advice im receiving is most excellent!
Keep um coming!
Based on my research, I would bet that there is also a requirement for a 'rescue plan' that will involve another vehicle or powered boat to cope with emergencies on the water.
Yep i am looking at boat hire companies that dont have rescue boats, and how they opperate.
Canoe hire companies dont offer insurance do they?
I think the rules will need you to have a viable emergency plan - whether you need a rowboat, powerboat or something else will probably depend on your proposal. You have to take the circumstances you will be operating in, and convince 'them' that you can get the public out of any trouble they can get into.
That would vary a lot on your location - eg waterfalls and rapids versus duck ponds.
I would use the 'how would I want my kids to be looked after if they hired X' test as a basis for a proposal.
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