Rivetted Vs Welded construction

[issac82]

Can somebody explain me what is the minimum thickness requirements of welded construction??does construction standards cover this aspect??

[gonzo]

What material?

[aranda1984]

Different welding methods and different materials will give you different minimums.
The question is too vague for a reply.

Also, more qualified (better) welders can weld thinner materials without burning the metal through.
If you are thinking of very thin aluminum for construction, investigate the possibility of epoxy under the overlap and rivets...

The newest Jaguar cars are built this way!
Advantage: uniform material strength, no weld stress cooncentration, no warpage, etc.

[Ad Hoc]

As already noted above, the question is a bit vague. But more importantly you elude to

Originally Posted by issac82

does construction standards cover this aspect??

This implies you are, or wish to, build to a known standard. If so one assumes this to be a Classification. All Classification Societies have a minimum thickness rule, based upon the vessels particulars. Once you have obtained this minimum thickness value, it is up to the skill of your production to inform you whether than successfully weld the plate to satisfy Class standards.

A friend of mine who is a genius with Ally, several years ago successfully obtained LR approval certs for welding 1.8mm aluminium and below. Anything is possible, but it depends upon the experience and skill of your production staff, and also which method of construction you would prefer, as the designer.

[issac82]

material is aluminum.I am trying to find out how can i know the minimum thickness that can be welded otherwise riveted?

I want to understand the construction methodology of ACVs which rely highly on rivet ted construction.

Can somebody help me understand all this??

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by issac82

material is aluminum.I am trying to find out how can i know the minimum thickness that can be welded otherwise riveted?

I want to understand the construction methodology of ACVs which rely highly on rivet ted construction.

Can somebody help me understand all this??

Be very careful here. Continuation of this discussion may violate local or international law under the Wassenaar Arrangement Dual Use Catagory 8.A.1.f or 8.A.1.g

http://www.wassenaar.org/controllists/index.html

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by issac82

material is aluminum.I am trying to find out how can i know the minimum thickness that can be welded otherwise riveted?

Just in the same way anyone else would, you make test samples!

Originally Posted by jehardiman

Continuation of this discussion my violate local or international law under the Wassenaar Arrangement Dual Use Catagory 8.A.1.f or 8.A.1.g

Not sure it would. Since it could well be a passenger ACV, for starters; this is just about welding or riveting, hardly a state secret!! But national export laws would over ride the WA, since the WA are just general guidelines. We conform to the UK export military licence laws; which are very clear. However, what one country agrees as being "ok" does not automatically assume any other country will allow such a 'deal' to progress. It is very dysfunctional and hypocritical too. One only has to look at the list of countries NOT on the list and ask the question, where did such despots get their arms?? If a country can make billions in arm sales to another not on the list, it is ignored. If same country doesn't like anothers regime, then suddenly it becomes ethical!!

[FAST FRED]

I have often wondered why more home builts are not done in aluminum with rivets.

Welding is a skill that can be learned , but the gear is expensive , and there is always the worry about the start of the weld.

Riveting takes $100 GUN ,any old air compressor perhaps another $100 in bucking bars , rivet cutting tool , and temp gun if the rivets will be tempered in an oven.

Another $100 in used Clecos and that's about it.

Cheap, simple (20 min learning curve) and strong , yet its not done.

Any reason?

Thinking of the 10ft to 55 ft. power and sail builders.

FF

[tazmann]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

I have often wondered why more home builts are not done in aluminum with rivets.

Welding is a skill that can be learned , but the gear is expensive , and there is always the worry about the start of the weld.

Riveting takes $100 GUN ,any old air compressor perhaps another $100 in bucking bars , rivet cutting tool , and temp gun if the rivets will be tempered in an oven.

Another $100 in used Clecos and that's about it.

Cheap, simple (20 min learning curve) and strong , yet its not done.

Any reason?

Thinking of the 10ft to 55 ft. power and sail builders.

FF

I don't think it would be that simple unless you were building a box shape, making and fitting up a curved flage with a varying angle would not be an easy task. Most that do this type of stuff are very skilled at it .
Tom

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

But national export laws would over ride the WA, since the WA are just general guidelines. We conform to the UK export military licence laws; which are very clear. However, what one country agrees as being "ok" does not automatically assume any other country will allow such a 'deal' to progress. It is very dysfunctional and hypocritical too. One only has to look at the list of countries NOT on the list and ask the question, where did such despots get their arms?? If a country can make billions in arm sales to another not on the list, it is ignored. If same country doesn't like anothers regime, then suddenly it becomes ethical!!

Not to mention the fact that within very few years China will likely be in the privileged position to compile it's own list of protected products, technologies and knowledge. It is something that cannot be prevented with wasting paper for printing lists like Wassenaar's, but only with a competitive and comprehensive technological, economical and social plan, like the one China has and the west apparently doesn't.
So, you can even try to not disclose these... "secrets" of metal working, but it's a secret which anyways won't last too long, at least if it is chinese whom we want to prevent from accessing them. Within 10-15 years it will most probably be us (the westerners) who will ask the chinese members of the forum how to store or feed, say, hydrogen or HHO gas into powerplants and boats engines. Or stuff like that...

[kettyperrien]

i have often wondered more home are not done aluminium rivets.
as metal made boats are non metal.
do not supposed..
but it is......