The Right Flag

[JonathanCole]

I know this is not strictly a design question, but it does relate to where to build and to what standards. I live in Hawaii.(U.S.). If I want to build a private boat and operate it in another country like the EU, or Australia is any flag better than another. I guess the issues are cost, convenience, security and bureaucracy. Also I intend to operate my boat primarily in protected waters and inland waterways. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[yipster]

papers and more yes but inland no flags requiered far as i know...
there must be a site with cortesy flags somewhere but nowadays who knows let alone fly those?

[JonathanCole]

How about in harbors?

[D'ARTOIS]

First of all, the EU is not a country, far from that. Everywhere in Europe, the rulings are different and the requirements to which your boat have to apply are different. Concerning the ruling: in the Netherlands, any flag is welcome. As long as you have the correct papers. If you operate your boat within the boundaries of the internal waterways, nobody will be interested really what kind of flag you carry. It is a bit different when you have a seagoing vessel. In that particular case make sure that you don't carry a Dutch one. Or an American one in the countries that do not favour the foreign US politics: Turkey, Morocco - all northern African countries and the like, you may include even some EU countries.
The Dutch are suspected drugrunners (in many cases these suspicions were certainly justified). The best neutral flag in the world is the Canadian one, followed by the French and the Scandinavians, Waltzing Matilda not to forget.

[RANCHI OTTO]

What about Swiss flag?

[yipster]

[D'ARTOIS]

I grant you that Otto, I forgot about the Swiss.

Nice questions, but the procurement of such a flag is subject to certain rulings.
You cannot buy yourself into a flag or you should have a vessel of some substance, making it worthwile to carry a flag of a foreign nation.
Commercial vessels use foreign flags because of tax-policy, to diminish the the detrimental effects of excess of paperwork, red tape some countries are inflicting to shipowners, etc.

For yachts, it is possible that you carry the flag of the country where the boat is registered. For a certain time at least.

In some countries, where a yachtregistration is voluntary, like Holland, disputes may arise of yachtownership. That have been often the case and therefore you are advised to register your yacht.
Unfortunately, this is a costly affair, once done, the ownership is officially confirmed.

Maybe others have info about foreign yachtregistration outside the superyacht business.

[RANCHI OTTO]

This is a very inetersting matter...thanks for informations.

[masrapido]

d'artois, I'd beg to disagree a bit here. Firsly, there is no such thing as a neutral flag. Only countries are (they believe so) neutral. The second is where did you get that about Canadian flag? (just curious for my own benefit of knowledge) Third is the levels of what you call "neutrality" of flags. Commercial as in small boats (nothing beats Monaco, say what you will) and yachts. Renting yachts, can't go past good old germans, but Gibraltar is the heaven and haven.

Ships, I think you got it all wrong there, but feel free to illustrate it for us. Me being merchant officer, I thought I'd know which flags are (what do you mean by neutral?) attractive and safe as JonathanCole suggests in his post, and neither of these are of any real attraction to prospective owner. Maybe you would like to clarify it for us?

[D'ARTOIS]

Of course I would like to elucidate my findings: my remarks are just of what I have experienced by sailing international waters since 1981, when I bought my first seagoing sailingboat. Before, I worked one year in Morocco and travelling once a month to Gibraltar to buy cigarettes, beer and liquor in big quantities for the benefit of the little sailing community we had in M'Diq, a small fishing harbour south of Ceuta.
In this process, I met many yachties from all over the world and observed how one was treated by the port officials. Impopular flags were to start with the German (I apologise to all Germans stating this); I know from own experience that the Dutch flag has its negative side-effects also; the American flag has its limitations also, specifically in the Med area.
The Canadian flag does not arouse any association with politics and drugs; Neither does the Scandinavian borne flags.

I was in Dover when a yacht from Honduras was boarded immediately after it arrived at the Wellingto Docks, Police with dogs came immediately and the crew was brought in line of the jetty. Nice reception, don't you think so?
Later on, a police-inspector explained to me why. This yacht was listed as a drug-runner and had been previously in Helgoland. What I did not know is that Helgoland is a sort of small distributioncenter of drugs, or used to be so.
Carrying the Dutch flag, my boat used to be boarded everywhere in the UK and Spain.
Many times I have been folowed by patrolboats and coastguardvessels, one of the reasons I avoid entering French harbours, except for the ones wher I am known.
So there is definitely an association with a certain flag if you look at it with he eyes of the port-authorities.

Regarding the commercial vessels, Masrapido, you know perfectly well that there are certain tax-related reasons why shipowners register their vessels under different flags.
The Superyacht owners are doing the same, but this is also tax-and money related.

So, what's the meaning of "neutral" in this case?

Neutral means a flag that does not raise associations with "questionable politics" wether it is drug-related (Holland & parts of S. America) or international (US) where yachtcrews may meet negative side-effects when entering countries that feel affected by the Government's political actions.

I think this might be very clear to all I rather prefer to have a UK flag or a French one rather than the Dutch one.
Carrying a Dutch flag I will be immediately suspected to transport drugs.

[safewalrus]

Most countries have some sort of residancy deal befor you can become a registered owner - bit like your car plates! If you are not from that country you don't get to play! There are some which only require money etc but you get nothing in return! Don't forget if you are registered in a country they are obliged to look after you = some more than others! A boats crew standas a better chance than the individual if stranded!

[masrapido]

Thanks, d'artois. I get your point. From that perspective, and in light of JonathanCole's question I would add New Zealand to the top of your list of "neutral" countries. Anglosaxons, yes, but in war with the rest of the pack with their green, antinuclear, anti US and anti everything else that is wrong in the world today. Possibly the last anglosaxon country that has still some respect preserved where the rest have failed.

Really neutral and good flag to have on your fleet of boats. But my preferences are still with Monaco. And even french may be attractive. Nowadays, I am not sure that UK flag has its' appeal as you say. Not in today's political climate. Definitely not in S. America after the unnecessary violence in London on innocent Brasilian guy.

[D'ARTOIS]

Yes Masrapido, that had escaped my attention, I would say, to stay in line with you, that he most preferrable flag might be one of those little countries, like Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg that are not in any way connected with international politics. Now I have to put the post of safewalrus forward who mentions that you have to be resident in most of the countries if you want to use their flag, and that is correct.
Can you imagine what it will cost you to be a Monegask resident?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Frosty]

It all depends on your nationality,(the owner) you cant just pick and choose. The british small ships registry for instance requires that you are a resident of Uk /or at least have an address there.That will cost 10 pounds. However as a member of the commonwealth I can also own a canadian, ausi or kiwi and a few others. I can not own Americam nor them ours.
I sold my Canadian reg yacht to a German who did not live in Germany. He had to end up paying some Mickey mouse Country some money over the internet, but got there in the end. Try the internet there are a few sites offering registration.
Flying fags of registration or nationality of the owner is becoming unpopular for the mentioned reasons, a courtesy flag alone (in its correct position) is not un-usuall. Flying a courtesy flag in the wrong position can, and quite rightly anoy some officials and attract un-wanted attention. Flag etiquette is complicated and lengthy. The RYC UK has a pamphlet didicated to it,the rules of which requires un-believable attention to it.

[safewalrus]

masrapido

How do you know he was innocent were you there? Leave topical politics out of it mate! They were tense days and everybody was a little jumpy for some reason, I know I was in the vicinity! - bit like Brazil at the best of times. Sorry to sound a bit off but as I said there was a reason