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  #136  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:04 AM
tugboat tugboat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Lets just talk superstructure here.

Aren't the superstructures of a lot of 'metal boats' (alum and steel) built somewhat along the lines of that wood structure that Tugboat posted,....studs and skins??. And then one has to provide some 'battens' (or whatever they might be termed?) on the interior surfaces in order to attach the 'interior finish surfaces/materials' to the vessel. And often you need to provide some insulation to keep down the condensation problem that occurs often with metals.

Couldn't that entire 'house structure' on that barge be simply made of a relatively thin fiberglass skinned 1 or 2 inch thick polypropylene honeycomb cored panels?






So I am NOT talking steel in ANY of the superstructure. And I believe you would find that the Polypropylene honeycombs are a lot less expense that many of the other 'hi-tech' honeycombs.

Plus I don't have any 'encapsulated wood' to eventually get wet and start rotting. I would be willing to pay a little bit more to keep all wood out of any coring on a vessel, even a houseboat.

And I believe once you got a little system in place (something like Kelsall's KSS system), you could build that whole 'house/cabin' structure faster than that 'stud-skin' method.
have you priced marine ply lately??? its stupid expensive. HC is not...
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  #137  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:31 AM
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SamSam SamSam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Lets just talk superstructure here.
Couldn't that entire 'house structure' on that barge be simply made of a relatively thin fiberglass skinned 1 or 2 inch thick polypropylene honeycomb cored panels?
I wonder how much compressive load that would handle on the edge. I'm thinking of your typical house boat roof that is also an open deck that might sometimes hold a bunch of people, where the roof loads would be transferred to the walls and the edges of those panels.
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  #138  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Lets just talk superstructure here. .....

Couldn't that entire 'house structure' on that barge be simply made of a relatively thin fiberglass skinned 1 or 2 inch thick polypropylene honeycomb cored panels?....

And I believe once you got a little system in place (something like Kelsall's KSS system), you could build that whole 'house/cabin' structure faster than that 'stud-skin' method.
Of course. Its the best way. For example, http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php...7#.Uh_fkX-N8ls houseboat offers either method. You can glue the thinner ply over high density foam..

The reason its not as popular as traditional methods is the problem of engineering calcs.

The scantlings for traditional stud/skin are easier to calculate, its just a routine extrapolation. For monocoque structures, using core material, its a whole new technique.

If you are 'making it up as you go' on a small boat, you will probably over or under engineer to blazes. For a commercial designer, both results are potentially a problem - it either fails under pressure, or it weighs/costs too much.

The question is - where do you find an engineer for a design that
1) Can do the calcs
2) Doesn't cost half the boat
3) has the experience to produce a workable, cost effective solution.

You can design it yourself - that has insurance and liability implications.

Where to now ?
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  #139  
Old 08-30-2013, 01:51 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwatson View Post
.....
The question is - where do you find an engineer for a design that
1) Can do the calcs
2) Doesn't cost half the boat
3) has the experience to produce a workable, cost effective solution.
Any competent engr can do these calculations, and the core people themselves often have staff on hand that can help with applications of their materials for different projects. Between those two sources you can build this simply 'box structure' with applicable 'roof loading'.
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  #140  
Old 08-30-2013, 01:58 AM
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Floating Tug-Barge Home

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post

I'll bet you could even put this superstructure on a flat rectangular barge hull....sort of a tug-barge, or barge-tug.

I'm actually looking at some ideas like this for a live-aboard for my Thai wife and myself, particularly as I began to see the difficulties with local city authorities about 'floating houses'.
Another fellow over on another forum was kind enough to 'photo-shop' this Pilgrim cabin onto a barge arrangement.....ha...ha
Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-pilgrim-houseboat-barge.jpg

Didn't turn out looking too bad . What do you think?

The city officials might have trouble defining whether this is a 'working barge' or a floating home.??

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post176315
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  #141  
Old 08-30-2013, 02:33 AM
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rwatson rwatson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Any competent engr can do these calculations
But not a lot of them will. Its a matter of business preference for starters, and may impact their liability insurance in many other cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
and the core people themselves often have staff on hand that can help with applications of their materials for different projects. Between those two sources you can build this simply 'box structure' with applicable 'roof loading'.
In fact, many of them can do the entire calculations using their products, which then brings me to those final two points

2) how much do they charge for the project ( and can you get an accurate estimate beforehand ), especially if it is for a one off, small budget project.

3) is the resulting material list and construction methods suitable for the project. That will often depend on how lucky you in choosing a brand.
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  #142  
Old 08-30-2013, 06:53 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
For many folks that dont have the hull building talent or skill set , BUT could assemble a house structure on a hull a look in Boats & Harbors will show loads of used equippment , and at least a dozen builders that would be delighted to quote on a product they have built many times.

With many decades of creating working hulls and barges , no cash outlay would be required from the new owner for engineering.

The service of just being a floating house boat is far less difficult than any work boat service..
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  #143  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:11 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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PP honeycomb items

Rwatson,
1) I might suggest you look thru a few of these NUMEROUS applications,

http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/nida-core-corp/nidacore-products-main-catalogue/37815-27244-_25.html

http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/ni...27244-_25.html

....page thru pages 24-46

2) Here's a guy who built an ENTIRE sailing catamaran out of PP honeycomb cored composite
http://www.buildacat.com/lyra1.html




Have a look at google 'images'
Attached Thumbnails
Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-22.jpg  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-milliehill06.jpg  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-room.jpg  

Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-untitled.png  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-judge-yachts-shop-denton-md.jpg  
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  #144  
Old 08-30-2013, 05:12 PM
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rwatson rwatson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Rwatson,
1) I might suggest you look thru a few of these NUMEROUS applications,
I dont know why you think i need to be converted - i agree that its the better way - thats what i said !!


If you compared the TOTAL number of cored constructions with the TOTAL number of rib and skin constructions - you would see a whole LOT more rib and skin.

.... for the reasons I gave. Its that simple.
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  #145  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dskira View Post
Something bugs me on that picture: Why the owner spend so much time on the superstructure (quite nice) and so little time on this awful and inefficient hull.
Even a houseboat should have a hull, not a shoe box.
He is not transporting coal by the hundred tons as far as I know.
A little more time building a nice hull, will have made this houseboat a real winner. In my eye anyway.
You do realize that this is NOT a real vessel....just a photo-shop one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian
Another fellow over on another forum was kind enough to 'photo-shop' this Pilgrim cabin onto a barge arrangement.....ha...ha
He did a couple of others as well....ha...ha
Attached Thumbnails
Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-pioneer-pilot.jpg  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-pioneeer-rph.jpg  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-pioneeer-gambler1.jpg  

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  #146  
Old 08-31-2013, 04:05 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwatson View Post
I dont know why you think i need to be converted - i agree that its the better way - thats what i said !!
I didn't understand that from the tone of your postings.


Quote:
If you compared the TOTAL number of cored constructions with the TOTAL number of rib and skin constructions - you would see a whole LOT more rib and skin.

.... for the reasons I gave. Its that simple.
That's like saying perhaps we shouldn't be building sandwich-cored vessels as there are many more single skinned glass ones or single skinned metal ones. Sandwich-cored ones are too difficult to engineer




Want to here an even crazier idea than my 'all-honeycomb superstructure' ?....How about composite and/or pultruded glass framing members in a metal hull. Just thinking 'out-side-the-box.

STEEL HULLS with Composite Superstructure / Topsides

STEEL HULLS with Composite Superstructure / Topsides

Is bulkhead tabbing now redundant?


Is bulkhead tabbing now redundant?
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  #147  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:32 AM
dskira dskira is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
You do realize that this is NOT a real vessel....just a photo-shop one.



He did a couple of others as well....ha...ha
Brian thank you. What a fool I am, I didn't see it!
I deleted my post, I fee too stupid.
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  #148  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:52 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Well I'm in the same 'boat' as you. When he first posted one of those other 'look-alikes' on this other forum, I got fooled also until someone on that other forum told me he was 'famous' for posting PhotoShop renditions' ...its sort of a hobby of his as well as good participating on that forum

BTW, when I ask him if he could give me such a Photoshop image, I was actually thinking of placing it on a flat barge shape similar to what Eric Sponberg posted back at item #3.

I guess I didn't spell that out, just asked for it to be put on a 'barge'. He went to the 'wild-side' and put the whole thing on a trailer....so funny
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  #149  
Old 03-15-2014, 08:01 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadArt View Post
Hi all,

Last year I made this design.
It´s a self propelled houseboat that fits the slots and bridges in the french canals, so in europe you can go almost everywhere you´dd like.
It meets the CE-requirements class C(sheltered waters) and is fully self supporting by means of powersupply, potable and wastewater etc.
Let me know waht you think.
regards, Frank
Just looking back thru this subject thread, and noticed you only made a single posting? Did you ever proceed forward with your project??

Your original dwg had a nice combination of canal barge and houseboat.
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  #150  
Old 03-15-2014, 08:46 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Richard Branson's houseboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Woods View Post
Richard Branson used to run his Virgin empire from a house boat on the Thames in London

I quote

"Immediately adjacent to the footbridge is the barge that was Richard Branson's home for many years when he had just begun his Virgin business. Many interviews of the man were conducted on the top deck of the barge. In the 1980's locals often claimed that Bransons' boat was an eyesore. "

Guess they thought he was also a "down and out" and a troublemaker

Richard Woods of Woods Designs
Don't recall if these photos were ever posted
Attached Thumbnails
Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-bransons-houseboat.jpg  Retirement Houseboat or Floating Home-branson-home.jpg  
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