Rethinking the smallest boat circumnavigation

[Nick.K]

PDW
Hadn't RKJ already sailed from India to England in Suhali? (http://www.robinknox-johnston.co.uk/da/20084) For a professional seaman to do this in his leave shows a love of bieng at sea.
I've read "a world of my own".. and "seamanship" and many of his yachting articles, my impression was always of a quiet, modest and decent man with great will-power and inner toughness. The image of a bigoted nationalist after fame and fortune certainly doesn't seem to fit him.... but surely we are taking a wrong turning here, what matters is the positive. (but you've made S.P.s' day, comparing him to RKJ, he'll be thinking of doing it non-stop next!!)
Nick

[kvsgkvng]

I was going through this thread and it veered off course so much, that I wonder what this thread is all about? Many times... It is all nice but contains less and less about "smallest boat." Nevertheless, it is fun to wread; maybe this thread is going to be the longest one after all. Thus, it would reflect readers' inclinations. Thanks for sharing!

[viking north]

Read crefully I think PDW and Nick got it back to StonedPirate (OP) for the past two posts. Like SP's proposed little craft it could drift anywhere from there

[viking north]

Read carefully and you will find that PDW and Nick got it back on course mentioning StonedPirate, where it will drift from there might be an indication of SP's little craft once in mid ocean. However I now give him a fighting chance having gotten rid of the chair on a surfboard concept.(Sorry SP had to get that in.)

[Nick.K]

Talking about getting back on course....S.P.'s proposal for a kite sail got little consideration, but kites are interesting. (Three years ago I bought a power kite to learn more.)
Ignoring the obvious problems, kites do have some advantages:

wind has lower turbulence and more energy with increased height
Kite propulsion generates no heeling moment
There is a vertical vector of lift lift from the kite
Kites can sweep through a large radius thus working more efficiently in light air conditions
Kite systems can be withdrawn completely in case of adverse weather (S.P made this point)
If the kite system is damaged it is easier and much cheaper to replace than a mast, in fact several spare systems could be carried (well on a sensible boat anyhow)

Any interest in a new thread to discuss some of these concepts??

[Milehog]

Originally Posted by kvsgkvng

Thread treads like a ran-away jazz musician trying to make it back to the main melody

LOL, that's good! Can i use it?
People will think I'm so witty...

[kvsgkvng]

Originally Posted by Nick.K

kites do have some advantages:

wind has lower turbulence and more energy with increased height
Kite propulsion generates no heeling moment
There is a vertical vector of lift lift from the kite
Kites can sweep through a large radius thus working more efficiently in light air conditions
Kite systems can be withdrawn completely in case of adverse weather (S.P made this point)
If the kite system is damaged it is easier and much cheaper to replace than a mast, in fact several spare systems could be carried (well on a sensible boat anyhow)

Any interest in a new thread to discuss some of these concepts??

I few years ago one lady tried to cross Pacific Ocean with the help of a kite sail. Everything was fine up to the point when that lady couldn't launch this kite in the middle of the ocean... She was rescued and had to abandon the boat.

Disadvantages of kites meant to be not an experiment but the working horse:

•Difficult or impossible to launch in less than 10-15 mph wind.
•As the height of kite sail increases, so does the weight of the harness to carry it. The weight increases faster than the benefit of the higher altitude and larger sail area.
•Large sail is almost impossible to launch from the deck of a small boat, especially in low winds.

If this scheme would be profitable, many commercial shipping companies would already explore the opportunity.

Perhaps as an exotic exercise, the kite might work in unique conditions, like small loads, high wind, calm seas, etc.

I would not want to try to use in my boat without or with heeling advantages.

[Nick.K]

Originally Posted by kvsgkvng

Disadvantages of kites meant to be not an experiment but the working horse:

My proposal is to explore to conceptual advantages, some of which look interesting.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Nick.K

Talking about getting back on course....S.P.'s proposal for a kite sail got little consideration, but kites are interesting. (Three years ago I bought a power kite to learn more.)
Ignoring the obvious problems, kites do have some advantages:

wind has lower turbulence and more energy with increased height
Kite propulsion generates no heeling moment
There is a vertical vector of lift lift from the kite
Kites can sweep through a large radius thus working more efficiently in light air conditions
Kite systems can be withdrawn completely in case of adverse weather (S.P made this point)
If the kite system is damaged it is easier and much cheaper to replace than a mast, in fact several spare systems could be carried (well on a sensible boat anyhow)

Any interest in a new thread to discuss some of these concepts??

Before we do that, why don't you sketch us a kite system designed to propel a 1000 kg (2200 lb) boat? You could draw this to a consistent scale, showing details of the kite control systems and how the kite is to be attached to the boat.

To make it even more interesting, lets impose the following requirements:

1.) it has to usable in a minimum wind strength of 5 kts (not necessarily airborne),
2.) The boat using it has to be able to make windward progress under it alone, and
3.) It has to be competitive with a conventional rig of at least 12 sm (128 sf).

I think, at the very least, this could give you an interesting challenge.

[Yobarnacle]

Never used a kite. Know nothing about them except flying paper kites as a kid. Older ocean liferafts from 50s 60s had boxkite antennaes and handcranked morse key DSB AM emergency radios in them.
Could you lauch a kite from a masthead? Once flying, trip a release so the sheet or tether whatever you call it, is freed from mast and now deck secured and not trying to heel you over. ???

[Nick.K]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

why don't you sketch us a kite system designed to propel a 1000 kg (2200 lb) boat?

I have tried! But beyond my power kite flying I've no experience of control systems. But that isn't the point anyhow, a technology can be interesting outside the context of its application and sometimes study of technology can present new applications, lasers for example had no application when invented and now they are everywhere.
Yob makes a good point; why does an interest in kites imply that you want to junk the mast? Skysail use a mast for launch http://www.skysails.info/english/

[bntii]

Originally Posted by bntii

Originally Posted by bntii View Post
In the states a continual stream of capable hulls are cut up and disposed of each year.
Six or so came out of the yard where my shop is over this last year- look into it, a modest though capable boat can be put together for less than you might think.
I picked up a Contessa 26 a couple of years back for 1k. Others boats are free of for some portion of outstanding yard fees.
The economy is still down- they can't give em away.

Attachment 67818

It's more expensive to cut and haul, than to give them away.
Get a boat and start sailing.

Another is crossing my plate- A Pearson Vangard.

The boat has issues and needs cleaned up but the bones are there.
Some good gear is in her and has sails, good rig etc.
The boat is in Annapolis.
Pm me or post here.

Sister ship:



And some info:

http://pearsonvanguard.homestead.com...rd_article.htm

http://www.pearsonvanguard.org/

[buzzman]

A few pages back someone posited that Tetley was the first "multihull" to circumnavigate. First "trimaran", maybe....

First "multihull" was...I'm pretty certain....David Lewis and family on catamaran Rehu Moana - in 1963!! ...and David writes a good book too.

He's better known for his experimental navigation journeys, proving that Polynesian sailors did in fact sail vast distances across the Pacific - and knew where they were all the time - without instruments.

Read his books if you want to know more.

Back OT, if OP is still around, has he considered a 10ft bridge deck catamaran?

Two hulls for living and storage, and the bridge deck, perhaps with only a breakwater (or bulwark) and a decent spray dodger would make a very stable platform, carry loads more gear, be just as cheap or cheaper to build from tortured marine ply, epoxy and glass coated....

But he'd need to read the Prevent Multihull Capsize thread to know how to achieve that in full-on gales.

Big pluses for the multihull is:
A) - sails a lot faster - like at least twice as fast as a similar size multihull

B) - no-one's done it in a 10' multihull yet - OP could be "the first"

[kerosene]

This was the most accurate post. Sign of a dreamer is to sit on couch and come up with exotic solutions instead of trying to gain experience.

Originally Posted by Stumble

I just keep reading these threads, even knowing they are pointless.

Stoned has no idea what he is doing, and his SOR keeps changing, as does his ideas of how to cope with entirely ridiculous problems without ever addressing the real challenges something like this poses. He has no experience sailing, no experience in rough weather, no experience off shore, ect... And instead of trying to learn any of these things, he is hoping to stumble upon some magic bullet that will make this idea work.

If he really intended to even try something like this, he would be buying a cheap laser, instead of trying to figure out if a system no one has ever used is a magic bullet for some as yet undiscovered problem.

Also. I am currently doing a coast to coast (us) trip on a motorcycle. From pacific coast to Rockies was 95% on dirt. Well equipped and good shape bike lost a mirror from fatigue, blew fork seal, dimmer switch melted (probably dust caused resistance to rise), horn stopped working, rear brake line melted, blinker stopped working (vibration probably). Tough conditions are tough on the equipment. My trip wasn't extreme in any sense but still a lot of small stuff decided to fail. Obviously none were life threatening and the brake line being the most serious had me order a part 2 days ahead and ride on front brake until then. Not a huge deal.

When you are alone in the dark,wet and cold on a boat in wind you never imagined possible you can't just pull over and wait.

[PlaningWheel]

I wouldn't want to spend the time nor the discomfort but this is how I would do it.
Mainly because a capsize is more probable than just possible.

This 10' (1728 lb. displacement) cat can be rerigged after a capsize by rotating the mast and inverting the daggerboards / rudders.
It uses assymetrical boards (when on a reach) and only the leeward board should be in the water with the windward board retracted and the windward rudder retracted or kicked up as well (both doubling as spares).
A tent / canopy structure is rigged over the sleeping / living area between the hulls designed so that rain water can be collected and directed to a storage tank. Plus a couple of solar distillers.
It would fly a spinnaker / blopper with bow and stern lines attached to each lower corner of the sail. Such that ( when on a reach) one side of the sail can be pulled down onto the windward bow block and the other side of the sail can be controlled by the leeward stern line attached to the other side of the sail (downwind uses both stern lines with slack bow lines).
This along with your halyard allows the sail to be set in many different positions (semi kite).
The aft crossbeam has been extended out on either side to provide a wide base for the stern sheets.
A small storm spinnaker can also be carried (bow net) and can double as a sea anchor in the worst of conditions.