Rethinking the smallest boat circumnavigation

[viking north]

Sea of Cortez--back in 75/76 ?? the big Henkley I sailed on lost the top 30ft. of a 100ft. mast as a result of a parted forestay. The owner had a new mast built and installed at Marina Del Ray, at a cost of $10,000. They did a good job as it was on to Alaska and out to Hawaii and back, then thru the Panama to Boston with no problems.I recall i was fastinated on their shop formed sections arriving on site welded in place and buffed with no sight of a seam. Them boys did good work.
Sad to see a vessel decomissioned and broken up. Always a sense of no appreciation for some of the old girls. Like a funeral, I hate it.

[bntii]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

Sawzall and a dumpster. The end of too many good boats.

Yep- that was a Cal 25.

Not too sexy but Lapworth knew his stuff. Cals are remarkably nice sailors and capable boats for their type.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

Bernard Moitessier was living in Sausalito aboard his boat with family in 1977 I think and a regular visitor to the Gate 3 Boat Co-Op yard about the time this pic of BERTIE being planked was taken, and his many kind words about his long trip, boat-building, sailing in Vietnam where he spent much of his early life, and his philosophy in general led to the rig shown in the second photo.
I never read his book but the impression I got from him through many rambling afternoon conversations 35 years ago.... was that the competition aspects just got unimportant and the sailing became all, it was the reason he was there, not to compete with people anymore.
I guess he changed purpose in mid-race and started competing with the Southern Ocean, one of the mightiest forces on our tiny planet, instead.
Going for a record is competing with humans, using some chosen boat size/ocean crossing standard and the ocean as the method of competition.
Saying "Top this!".
Since it's a gauntlet thrown down to people using the ocean as a a standard and if you want to do it for Guinness Book you should get a lot of experience in others' successes and, especially, failures in your chosen endeavor first.
I am sure one can go to a local mortuary and purchase a well-built coffin and go to sea in it with the same results as some of the things I see proposed on these threads.
One of the smaller practical boats for surviving 'doing stupid things on the water' is the 11' 11" SCAMP design from John Welsford available as a very well planned kit or plans if you wish.
Adding fat foam sponsons and a good dodger would make it almost ocean-going, sometimes, in some oceans.
But small boats come with unavoidable compromises.
I once encountered a 25' Folkboat in the Sea of Cortez with a Canadian family of three cruising on it.
There was maybe 8"-10" freeboard amidships.
With so little room, and with the need to concentrate weight amidships in rough water, one day aboard for lunch with them I noticed that the gasoline stove was in use on a piece of plywood tied to the top of 4 full plastic Jerrycans of gasoline in the middle of the cabin.
You need room to live.
Pics with apologies to WB mag and see the latest issue for more of Mr. Welsford's excellent design work.
He does bespoke custom designs, so call him up and tell him your ideas and needs in a boat to break a 'record' and he won't belittle you.

SCAMP is another likely classic. It is so well designed for it's intended purpose, it makes me almost want to choke with envy.

[sharpii2]

I found the rest of my sketches for my FOOTBALL design concept.

It was drawn for the around in ten site a few years back.

on an earlier post on this thread, I posted just the profile drawing. Here, I'll post all three.

As you can see, there isn't much of an interior. Just a flat spot to sit or lay down on.

[BATAAN]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I found the rest of my sketches for my FOOTBALL design concept.

It was drawn for the around in ten site a few years back.

on an earlier post on this thread, I posted just the profile drawing. Here, I'll post all three.

As you can see, there isn't much of an interior. Just a flat spot to sit or lay down on.

Looks Bolger-like.

[Nick.K]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

I once encountered a 25' Folkboat in the Sea of Cortez with a Canadian family of three cruising on it.
I noticed that the gasoline stove was in use on a piece of plywood tied to the top of 4 full plastic Jerrycans of gasoline in the middle of the cabin.

Some people just have charmed lives...

[jak3b]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

Bernard Moitessier was living in Sausalito aboard his boat with family in 1977 I think and a regular visitor to the Gate 3 Boat Co-Op yard about the time this pic of BERTIE being planked was taken, and his many kind words about his long trip, boat-building, sailing in Vietnam where he spent much of his early life, and his philosophy in general led to the rig shown in the second photo.
I never read his book but the impression I got from him through many rambling afternoon conversations 35 years ago.... was that the competition aspects just got unimportant and the sailing became all, it was the reason he was there, not to compete with people anymore. "

Bernards book The Long Way and Richard Maury's Saga Of Cimba wrecked my life!.
I am enternally thankful to both of them.I would have loved to have met Moitessier.
I read The Long Way when I was 12 or 13.I knew then after reading it that I would never lead a "normal " life.Single handed ocean racing has become a billion dollar joke.Monster boats with unlimited budgets backed by huge banks,auto and insurance companies.Land based "teams" of hundreds of people.Single handed? come on!.There keels snap off and they are rescued in a matter of hours at a massive cost,useally to Australia or New Zealand.The taxpayers footing the bill.Its a huge corporate advertising orgy.

[viking north]

Nick.K --more the luck of the Irish -- They must have been Irish to be kind enough to invite the tough old seadog Bataan(compliment) to dine --

[viking north]

jak3b -- You have to remember Moitessier had a far superior craft when compared to the leaky- backyard built basket of a wreck that Knox Johnson was sailing. So much so he had to brave sharks and nail canvas patches on he garboard seams before he even got across the Atlantic on the outward leg. When one compares the two teams (vessel and operator making up a team) Moitessier while a great sailer is small time compared to RNK. I doubt Moitessier would have had the where with all to even patch up the garboards let alone continue and complete the race. I would rate RNK one of the greatest small boat sailers on record. I agree, 100% with you on todays single handed racing as a billion dollar joke. I had a long chat with Canadian Derek Hatfield (third place winner solo round the world) this week at the Halifax Boat Show. He was guest speaker there along with a display including a model of his water world space ship. I couldn't help but mentally drift from the conversation and compare that with the backyard hand built monohull of RNK, the two fragile plywood trimarans of Tetley and Crowhurst. These three were the most fragile of the race. Moitessier had the ideal combination( size, 36ft. and steel's strength) of all the contenders for this single handed race at the time period. Contrary to all the bull published, based on the best calculations since, RNK would have finished 5 days ahead of Moitessier. Moitessier being the sailer he was would have well known this and I honestly feel contrary to the armchair experts on his personality he chose to quit rather than come in second. Quit and create a speculative win--thus take some of the glory away from the Englishman, which by the way is exactly what occured right up to the present day Think about the cykie at the time, the French lose again to the English. Regardless of his great effort, He would have been scorned at home and would have to face the fact that he, the great French Sailer was beaten by an Englishman. The fantastic French sailers of modern times have more than made up for the loss but that was the way it was at the time.The individual represented the country rather than the commercial logos of multiple mega companies in todays races. Personally I think he did himself, his country,and the race a great diservice by quitting and being disqualified.

P.S. One good point about todays racing machines they are all engineered to close performance equalization, thus a level playing field.

[jak3b]

Originally Posted by viking north

jak3b -- You have to remember Moitessier had a far superior craft when compared to the leaky- backyard built basket of a wreck that Knox Johnson was sailing. So much so he had to brave sharks and nail canvas patches on he garboard seams before he even got across the Atlantic on the outward leg. When one compares the two teams (vessel and operator making up a team) Moitessier while a great sailer is small time compared to RNK. I doubt Moitessier would have had the where with all to even patch up the garboards let alone continue and complete the race. I would rate RNK one of the greatest small boat sailers on record. I agree, 100% with you on todays single handed racing as a billion dollar joke. I had a long chat with Canadian Derek Hatfield (third place winner solo round the world) this week at the Halifax Boat Show. He was guest speaker there along with a display including a model of his water world space ship. I couldn't help but mentally drift from the conversation and compare that with the hand backyard built monohull of RNK, the two fragile plywood trimarans of Tetley and Crowhurst. These three were the most fragile of the race. Moitessier had the ideal combination( size, 36ft. and steel's strength) of all the contenders for this single handed race at the time period. Contrary to all the bull published, based on the best calculations since, RNK would have finished 5 days ahead of Moitessier. Moitessier being the sailer he was would have well known this and I honestly feel contrary to the armchair experts on his personality he chose to quit rather than come in second. Quit and create a speculative win--thus take some of the glory away from the Englishman, which by the way is exactly what occured right up to the present day Think about the cykie at the time, the French lose again to the English. Regardless of his great effort, He would have been scorned at home and would have to face the fact that he, the great French Sailer was beaten by an Englishman. The fantastic French sailers of modern times have more than made up for the loss but that was the way it was at the time.The individual represented the country rather than the commercial logos of multiple companies in todays races. Personally I think he did himself, his country,and the race a great disrespect by quitting and being disqualified.

P.S. One good point about todays racing machines they are all engineered to close performance equalization, thus a level playing field.

I read Knox-Johnstons book "A World Of My Own" .Suhaili was built in India at a ship yard and was solid teak.Also, Moitesseier built 3 of his own boats and had a hand in building Joshua,where he learned how to weld.With the exception of Joshua they were all built on a shoe string out of what ever was at hand.He built his second boat on a beach on Mauritius after wrecking his first on the reef there so I think he just might have had the where with all to patch a garboard.Now in his sailing career he did lose 3 of his boats by his own admission to being sloppy or being over fatigued.RNK was a trained officer in the British merchant marine and might have a more disciplined approach.As far as representing "His country"
Moitessier was born in Viet Nam.He grew up spending alot of time with Viet fisherman whom he credits as his teachers and inspiration.He had never been to France.When he finally did make it there he realised he was definately NOT French.He felt like an alien there.He had nothing in common other than language.
Moitessier,Loick Fergeron,and Bill King were all planning on doing a non-stop circumnavigation of the world independently of each other.It was the last "Everest" of sailing.Some one got word to The 'Observer' and they put up the prize to gain publicity.It was after reading about that that RNK got involved.He was incensed that a Frenchman might be the first around non-stop!.Imagine,How bloody awful!.For queen and country and all that tripe.RNK tried to get a larger faster boat built for "The Race" but wound up having to settle with the boat he already had.As far as writing,Moitessier was hands down far more interesting.If I had to sit next to someone on a long flight I would much rather it be Moitessier.
A good read about the Golden Globe race is "A Voyage For Madmen" by Peter Nichols.Check it out.

[viking north]

jak3b, Have read "Voyage for Madmen" many times. Moitessier was born in "French" Indo China, and and in building his own, Moitessier would have had the stronger and better equipped craft. RNK was not an experienced builder and not really by his own admission a highly learned canvas expert sailer. One shouldn't judge the character by their written word as many of these have been highly edited for sales. The point i am making thruout is one has to judge this race by the deed. RNK completed the race dispite impossible odds. Moitessier quit--he knew he couldn't win --forget that crap about it wasn't important to him-he was highly competitive otherwise he wouldn't have challenged the sea to do the race in the first place. That shows a strong competitive spirit. He has been portrayed as some sort of a sailing sensi -- a gerue --a mystic man of the sea--What a bunch of bull. The point i'm making here is reality--he was quitter--he took his ball and bat and ran home --When he entered the race he had a moral obligation to the sponsers and his fellow entrants to do his damdest to win, to compete. Not to belittle the event by quitting without just reason--health or equiptment failure. I agree he was a great sailer but in my book not a great sportsman. As I prev stated, by quitting: he did the race , his fellow competitors, and his country a disservice. His country (Citizen of France-- where he is honoured - where he went for medical attention-where he died but a country he didn't like ??? Another fallacy. No disrespect but I really don't get this Moitessier thing ---

[JosephT]

You will probably need to read all of Moitessier's books to realize where he is coming from. He was raised in Indochina and pretty much grew up on the water sailing boats. His heart was with a simple life and the sea, swimming, spear fishing and enjoying the beauty of the world. Not even his wife could keep him latched to a home...his heart was with the sea.

He also grew distasteful of modern society with all of its stresses on man and the environment. Rather than call or telegraph a message he preferred to use a sling shot and launch hand written letters to passing boats.

You'll really need to read all of his books to learn about his entire life. He's a natural literary scholar. I would argue his collection of sailing books are no doubt among the best ever written.

I also don't think he held any particular animosity towards Britain during the Golden Globe race or after it. In his earlier years he sailed across the world with another friend who happened to be from Britain (see his book "Sailing to the Reefs"). They were very good friends. They raced each other in their respective boats from port to port and had a blast.

If anything I think Moitessier was just turned off at the formality of the prize for the Golden Globe race in 1968. You know, all the drama with the Queen, Princes, trumpets and all the pomp ceremonial BS. All this is antithetical to his entire view of the world. He was in it for the view and the ride. His finish line was another half lap around the world in a beautiful place called Tahiti, not the cold & clammy shores of the UK.

In my opinion, at the very core of it the vast majority of sailors just want to relax on a nice sailing trip like Moitessier did time and again. That's what he taught the world. He sent a very strong message that life is more important than work.

[jak3b]

Its all good Viking. You and I will convince each other of nothing.Any how what ever these people did or actually didnt do was not the point of my responce to Bataans post.Moitessiers book had a major influence on me as a kid.So did Maury's and many others as well.

[viking north]

A Great sailer no doubt what so ever-a great philosophy on sailing life -no question- and maybe I was a little harsh in that I don't get it, I do and being a sailer who's logged my share of salt water I admire and appreciate what the guy has done. Possibly he quit the race and his responsibility to his fellow competitors for "his" right reason and never foresaw what it would take away from the event. However the cold hard facts are it did take away by the mere speculation of who would have won had he stayed in. While that in itself is possibly no different than speculating "if so and so had not gotten sick or demasted --but in this situation because his far superior craft was gaining on RNK the general trend now is RNK only won because Moitessier quit. I think this is very unfair as it reducers the blood sweat and tears of a true sportsman and rightful winner especially more so in that it is very unlikely Moitessier would have. For this event I label him unsportsman--inconsiderate and irresponsible.By accepting the challenge he had a resposibility to compete and complete it at all costs. He chose not to do so for his code in life over his responsibility in life at that time. I think they label that as being selfish at the cost of others. For that event which in reality the biggest historical event in sailing and the biggest event in his sailing career he failed to deliver.The only leeway I can give him is, his dropping out was a result of a mental breakdown over the stress of competition and or the very real possibility of coming in second. For the first it is understandable for the second he loses respect. I speak no more on this as it is one of my pet peaves of sailing history and I have no right to push it on others taking away the enjoyment of great men--I apologize ---- Geo.

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by viking north

A Great sailer no doubt what so ever-a great philosophy on sailing life -no question- and maybe I was a little harsh in that I don't get it, I do and being a sailer who's logged my share of salt water I admire and appreciate what the guy has done. Possibly he quit the race and his responsibility to his fellow competitors for "his" right reason and never foresaw what it would take away from the event. However the cold hard facts are it did take away by the mere speculation of who would have won had he stayed in. While that in itself is possibly no different than speculating "if so and so had not gotten sick or demasted --but in this situation because his far superior craft was gaining on RNK the general trend now is RNK only won because Moitessier quit. I think this is very unfair as it reducers the blood sweat and tears of a true sportsman and rightful winner especially more so in that it is very unlikely Moitessier would have. For this event I label him unsportsman--inconsiderate and irresponsible.By accepting the challenge he had a resposibility to compete and complete it at all costs. He chose not to do so for his code in life over his responsibility in life at that time. I think they label that as being selfish at the cost of others. For that event which in reality the biggest historical event in sailing and the biggest event in his sailing career he failed to deliver.The only leeway I can give him is, his dropping out was a result of a mental breakdown over the stress of competition and or the very real possibility of coming in second. For the first it is understandable for the second he loses respect. I speak no more on this as it is one of my pet peaves of sailing history and I have no right to push it on others taking away the enjoyment of great men--I apologize ---- Geo.

I have read all of the books from that period, got them all in my library, and I disagree with you.

One point. Without radio or other forms of communication than a slingshot, just how do you come to the conclusion that Moitessier knew he couldn't win and therefore quit rather than come second? My recollections don't show that he had any real idea just where RNK actually was at the time.

I quote from Chapter 17, 1st paragraph:

"Where is Nigel? Where is Loick? Where is Bill King? And Knox-Johnson? Was he really the one the three Hobart fishermen had heard about? I have been without news of anyone for so long. More than 6 months without knowing about my comrades of the long way...."

To have any substance to your claims, you have to show that Moitessier had some knowledge that he states that he didn't have. It seems to me that you're making judgements about his motives contrary to his statements on zero evidence.

From his other writings, I think the explanation is exactly what he said it was. As for your claim that he had a moral responsibility to continue to the end, pffffft. Rubbish. You're attempting to push your moral values onto someone else.

PDW