Radical new mini

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Manie B, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Tanton
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    Tanton Senior Member

    For comparaison. Renderings of a recent Mini, and David Raison's Transat winner. For design clarity, I removed mast, sail, rudders and deck gear. etc.
     

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  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==========
    Thanks, Yves-excellent! Do you mind if I post these in the mini thread in "sailboats"?
     
  3. Tanton
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    Tanton Senior Member

    No problem. David Raison really started something!
     
  4. kach22i
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    kach22i Architect

    Some interesting craft and design approaches in this thread.:)
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  6. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    To look at it from general design philosophy standpoint, this "blunt bow" concept is a step towards making a catamaran out of mono, without formally infringing the rule description of "mono".
    For Mini, with so large beam allowed in the "box", and most other opportunities to improve power already more or less spent, this step is only logical.
    And here we have a perfect indication on influence of "mindset": everybody know, that fore end of boat is the pointy one, even for boat with L/B ratio close to 2 :D.
    I would be not surprised if someone will try completely rectangular design in the near future...
     
  7. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    It probably won't get that far. After a certain point, the boat will float so high on its side that that it will be difficult for it to meet its self righting requirement.

    Also, these boats do have to sail upwind sometimes. The square bow on a boat that wide and that light would be a major handicap.

    The bow might get wider, but the stern might get narrower.

    At point, you reach diminishing returns and get no further improvements.

    The people who design these boats are pro's who are probably at the top of their game.

    The blunt nose was a calculated risk that appears to have paid off. Whether or not an even blunter one will pay off is an even bet.
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    The relationship between scow design and multihull design is over 113 years old:
    from an SA thread by Earl Boebert:
    "Here's the original tunnel hull by G.H. Duggan, "Dominion." The mother of all rule beaters, 17 ft measured LWL, 27 ft sailing LWL, and inspiration for the M-20 scow class. Won the Seawanhaka Cup for Canada in 1898 and was promptly ruled illegal (with Duggan's concurrence.)"
    ----
    It should be remembered that the key to any scow-including David Raison's -is to sail it at an angle of heel upwind......

    click on image-Dominion-the first tunnel hulled scow:
     

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  9. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    Why not?
    Blunt bow do increase resistance, but in the same time it increase righting moment=> driving force to overcome this resistance.
    For me it too difficult to guess beforehand, especially so with successful design at hand.
    More so, with canting keel there is so many instruments to change the heel at whim, that it will be possible to set the optimum heel angle for the conditions.
     
  10. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    [​IMG]If you sail a PD in to the wind in big waves, the hull pounds and you get nowhere.

    Once the wind kicks up waves, you stop trying to go upwind and reach your way to where you're going.

    A pointy hull allows you to go upwind in waves.

    For someone that has a low-tech sail, this isn't really a problem for a lot of people. Reaching is more fun and you can't go up wind well anyway.

    But maybe the roundedness of these racing hulls helps with this:confused:
     
  11. GTO
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    GTO Senior Member

    I don't know about the pointy part helping Collin.
    I have a sloop rigged Windsprint and it suffers going to windward against freeboard high waves with one aboard. Being so lightweight, a wave just about stops it, not to mention throwing it to leeward a bit.
    Loaded with 3 people though, we plowed right thru the slop, with both jib and main sheeted as hard in as we could manage. Balancing hull form and displacement would appear to be something to which a small(er) boat designer/builder should pay close attention.
     
  12. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    How did you fit 3 people in to a windsprint?!:D

    Perhaps you were excessively heeled with one person and so the driving force of the sail was too diminished? And the extra mass of people meant a deeper hull and heavier boat, less apt to being effected by waves.:confused:

    If you sail a PD in chop it goes "THUD...THUD...THUD" whenever a wave hits it. It's loud!

    But if I sail my pointy flat bottomed canoe in the same waves, I can hardly notice they're there. BUT if the waves get big enough, you still get the slapping of the flat bottomed hull. We are talking about very different boats, tho.
     
  13. GTO
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    GTO Senior Member

    Which really makes the point I presented so badly. Merely sticking a pointed bow on a boat doesn't produce a guaranteed windward monster. Other factors are just as important.
     
  14. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    But it in that instance, you need the pointed boat.

    If you overload a boat with a transom bow, you'll be creating too much drag as it sinks in to the water.

    I don't know enough to say how much having the rounded front of the racing boats affects this. Just getting rid of the of the hard transition at the bow probably helps tons.
     

  15. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Are you sure this is a Radical New Mini--see any similarities in hull design(missing bow) when you compare to this 1946 craft?? :confused: And who said windsurfers were a new invention--Seems whats old is new again-Sorry my computer skills force me to post in miniture forcing you to enlarge to view---Geo.
     

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