question from a student

[Cleetus]

So I'm currently working on my second drawing for Westlawn and I had a question or two. If there's anyone out there who still uses 'old school' lead and paper drawing this is your time to shine!

I'm finishing up a drawing and, as I'm trying to get the hang of things, there's a bunch of erased marks on the paper that haven't quite gone yet. Are there any tricks to erasing to make those dang lines go away? I'm using a nice sharp hard lead so I think it puts a good groove in the paper...

Also, when it comes to finalizing the vellum for copying, I figure I'll need to darken things up so those 'erased' lines don't show up. Do other people do this? Do you go back over your drawings to sharpen up the lines? Do you use softer lead? Ink? Or do you just press harder? Also since I use ships/french curves for my lines, getting an exact trace might be difficult.

OKOK I know this is a lot of questioning, but I'm trying to do this right and you all usually seem to have good answers

THANKS!

[rayk]

I draw with a hard lead softly first and ink over. Erasing is light and easy.
I note design numbers and ticks on my (wood)curves in lead.
Sorry cant help with the grooves in the paper.

[Trevlyns]

My preference is a softer lead (I use HB) and less pressure again, inked over afterwards. I have no problems with erased lines

[bhnautika]

Cleetus sometimes it’s the eraser that you’re using. I use a soft white pen type, keeping it clean by rubbing it on clean smooth surface.

[Willallison]

Cleetus - to start with, you need to use the right kind of lead - there are ones made specially for use on vellum / film. Drawing and erasing is much easier if you use the right stuff.
Personally, I use a medium hardness for my construction work - not pressing too hard, or as you say, you score the paper. Mostly though, I prefer to use HB.
I suggest you steer away from using ink for your Westlawn work. If your instructor comes back and suggests you need to make some changes, it will make fixing things a whole lot easier.
Also, I never used vellum. In Australia, it was too hard to get and too expensive. I just bought sheets of what are called tracing paper here. But get a sheet or two to try 1st. Draw a horizontal and vertical line, both as long as you can fit on the page. measure them and come back a couple of days later to to make sure they are still exactly the same length.... not all drafting paper is stable

[Tim B]

Tracing paper is fine for most things and an awful lot cheaper than proper drafting film.

Most of my (hand) technical drawing skills I learnt from my father. I usually used normal HB lead, and a soft white rubber (the ones from staples are very good).

When you are sure you've finished it, Ink over the lines in the appropriate ISO linetypes and thicknesses. This is now the final master copy. Take it to a printshop and get a dye-line copy made.

Hand in the Dye-line copy. If things need adding you can scribble on the copy to your heart's content. Only agreed changes will be made to the original, and that is done by overlaying a new piece of film and tracing the old plan, then marking it as the next issue. Again, a dye-line print is submitted. YOU KEEP THE ORIGINAL FILM!!! This sounds time-consuming, but it is a very good habit to get into. It makes life a lot easier when you come to do computer 2D drawings. It also has the advantage in a business situation (not that many people hand-draw things these days) that there can be no question who holds the original drawing.

Tim B.

[Crag Cay]

Cleetus - don't worry unduley about these things. All the above tips are good, but I would add one thing. Unless you want to be a paper draughtsman for historic interest, learning perfect drawing skills is no longer that important. It's more important to understand the process and what the lines means and how they interact. These are the skills that will stand you in good stead when you progress to CAD. If you are on Lesson 2 you have a way to go. Get it finished and move on. Good Luck.

[FAST FRED]

"These are the skills that will stand you in good stead when you progress to CAD"

But the computer drawn boats will be the computers version of Sweet , not yours.

Draw the old way , let the confuzer play with the numbers.

Just look at any old (no computer boat) lines and todays boats to see the difference.

Kinda like the difference between a live concert and a computer replay, the "sperts" will argue there the same music , but your ears will know the difference even in the dark.

FAST FRED

[CDBarry]

There are two kinds of leads that are useful for this process, non-photo blue (a light cyan that doesn't Xerox or photo) and non-blueline blue (darker, won't blueprint). Use these for light layout and preliminary on Mylar then ink with with Rapiogragh pens, and letter with a Graphos type that has a broad tip to get nice width variation in the letter. You have to use the right combinations of media, eraser (the clear yellow ones) and so on, and if so you will be able to erase everything cleanly. You also have to put little plastic spots on your tools to raise them off the paper, especially if you are inking. By the way, curves are only for inking over lines developed with a spline.

[Eric Sponberg]

I am really glad to see so many people using soft lead. Of the the great complaints against "naval architects" from regular architects is that we use lead that is much too hard. I was trained on 3H and 4H lead on vellum, but when I went to work for an architect for a few years, I switched to B and HB with the occasional 2H and 3H. Mylar requires harder lead, so I draw with 2H and 3H, but do my lettering with B and HB. By the way, drawings read much better if you use Capitals and lower-case letters, just like this paragraph, rather than using ALL CAPITALS.

TRY READING A PARAGRAPH WITH ALL CAPITALS AND YOU'LL SEE IT IS MUCH HARDER ON THE EYES THAN READING WITH CAPS AND LOWERS.

Try reading a paragraph with all capitals and you'll see it is much harder on the eyse than reading with caps and lowers.

I have never gotten used to the "plastic leads", and so stay with conventional leads.

I use a Staedtler Mars eraser, both block and pencil type, and yes, I do go over the whole sheet periodically to erase the worst of the lines and heavy in the weak areas of the regular lines.

I have also found that in drafting by hand, I usually use about three different line boldnesses (thick, medium, and thin), but in drafting by computer, I use 5 different boldnesses.

Eric

[marshmat]

Wow.... guess I've become too cozy with my computers.
Despite many advances in CAD technology, there's still something nice about a good sheet of paper and a few pencils. Nothing like the old sketchpad to flesh out an idea. Paper drafting, though, does seem to be going the way of the dodo.... much of what I do needs to be either CFD compatible, or CNC mill compatible, or compatible with what's being drawn three desks over in a different program.
It's interesting to note that here at Queen's, and at many other engineering schools, paper drafting is no longer taught. The first-year engineering graphics course focuses on freehand sketching, visualization of 2D drawings, etc. with a smidgen of parametric 3D CAD, but there's no instrument drafting anymore. Upper year courses in drawing are all about parametrics, NURBS and analysis meshing; again, no drafting as most of you remember it. In engineering these days, you have to design a part, test fit it, analyze it, break it and repair it before anyone will build it, and you can't spend money on that. Allowed tolerances in all sorts of devices grow closer every year; costs have to be reduced. CAD has completely taken over virtually every aspect of engineering.... the boat guys and the architects are among the only holdouts.

[FAST FRED]

the boat guys and the architects are among the only holdouts.

Since their products are still sold by "Looks" , rather than mere utility.

No one cares if the Esso Maru is "yare" , but boat purchasers sure do care!!

FAST FRED

[marshmat]

Agreed, Fred. A cubic spline may be clean and smooth, and well enough defined to carve by machine, but for elegant artistry in design there's still something nice about a pencil and paper.

[Cleetus]

Wow, thank you all for the responses. I did get a response from basically the same post on the Westlawn site saying 'no ink for students' so that rules out that. I think, however, my two big mistakes are perhaps too much pressure and the wrong kind of eraser; the pink kind was recommended in the syllabus.

[Tim B]

Reccomendations in Syllabi are to be taken with great care. Thier either too recent to be well tested, or too old to be relevant.

As for not inking drawings, what are they talking about? You always ink final copies. ALWAYS.

Tim B.