Possible? or Impossible? "FLYING SUBMARINE"....

[RatliffFranklin]

Originally Posted by RatliffFranklin

It is feasible with existing technology. But to generate the thrust required for a vehicle that heavy to go from the surface into space you'd need an Orion nuclear pulse propulsion system.

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

[charmc]

Does it make any sense to even think of reviving the nuclear-pulse concept? Economically the answer is yes. Pedersen (55) says that 10,000-ton spaceships with 10,000-ton payloads are feasible. Spaceships like this could be relatively cheap compared to Shuttle-like vehicles due to their heavyweight construction. One tends to think of shipyards with heavy plates being lowered into place by cranes. How much would the pulse units cost? Pedersen gives the amazingly low figure of $10,000 to $40,000 per unit for the early Martin design (56); there is reason to think that $1 million is an upper limit (57). Primarily from strength of materials considerations, Dyson (58) argues that 30 meters/second (about 100 feet/second) is the maximum velocity increment that could be obtained from a single pulse. Given that low-altitude orbital velocity is about 26,000 feet/second, around 350 pulses would be required (59). Using $500,000 as a reasonable pulse-unit cost, this implies a "fuel cost" of $175 million, cheaper than a Shuttle launch. Whereas the Shuttle might carry thirty tons of payload, the pulse vehicle would carry thousands. If one uses the extreme example of spending $5 billion to build a vehicle to lift 10,000 tons (or 20 million pounds) to orbit, the cost if spread over a single flight is $250 per pound, far cheaper than the accepted figure of $5,000 to $6,000 per pound for a Shuttle flight. (from Michael Flora paper on Project Orion, cited above by Ratliff Franklin)

Interesting ... Nasty, dirty stuff, since it's fission-based. R&D on fusion bombs has been oriented towards bigger bangs, the better to make a MADD deterent, but micro fusion explosions for a cleaner pulse engine sounds possible, in theory. The cost estimates are powerful, if even remotely accurate. Anything would be lower cost than NASA's system.

[charmc]

Kilbysg,

Your hybrid sub/starship exists already, at least in the mind of author John Ringo:

"Weaver had basically guessed that it was, in fact, some sort of Faster-Than-Light drive. It took nearly a year of tinkering, and two more planets, to figure out that it was, in fact, such a drive. It had taken another year to create the first prototype starship. ...

The only way to make a spaceship, fast, was to convert something. The obvious choice had been one of the many ballistic missile submarines that were being decommissioned." Vorpal Blade John Ringo & Travis S. Taylor, 2007
http://www.webscription.net/chapters...1291.htm?blurb

[kach22i]

Thunderbirds are GO.........FAB
Gerry Anderson
http://www.keithmcneill.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/3c.html

[masalai]

I personally like the drive/transport system used in "Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy"

[kach22i]

What would Burt Rutan do?

[charmc]

I was thinking along the same lines, George. As long as the sub remains in waters less than 30 mtrs or so, a composite hull/fuselage would work, while solving most of the weight problems for climbing out of the gravity well.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by charmc

I was thinking along the same lines, George. As long as the sub remains in waters less than 30 mtrs or so, a composite hull/fuselage would work, while solving most of the weight problems for climbing out of the gravity well.

That, and the whole piggy-back method he is now using to get into space.

Perhaps a capsule which uses different power-rigs to get around with.

When you think about it, didn't all the pre-shuttle stuff end up doing a splash-down anyway?

[rwatson]

Oh all right - I admit it, I have one in my garage!

Its made of carbon composite (Bucky balls and all that - you would think they would have better security around his grave site) and uses the warp generator from the old 'Enterprise' from the movie series (it was cheaper to build a working ship than pay those ridiculous prices that special effects firms charge).

I use it it generate income by having it appear as a UFO at national UFOlogists, lots of work as props in science fiction movies and have fun at the weekends buzzing airforce bases and then diving into the ocean to harass the nuclear submarines - drives them mad.

I can do 'crop circles' for a really good rate if I get a percentage of the photo royalties, if anyone lives in an agricultural area.

[westlawn5554X]

Is human a curious race or what? Now we are doing NASA homework...

[kilbysg]

Originally Posted by westlawn5554X

Is human a curious race or what? Now we are doing NASA homework...

Yah, someday, some of us will do...
A collection of engineers and scientists from every "CATEGORY" of each firm or field:
Naval Architect and Engineers, Aeronautic Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, Computer Engineers, Nuclear Physicist, and what else???
Secretary of Defense? (pardon me for saying that... )