Portager Trailerable Poll

[Portager]

OK Will here is the poll that you've been waiting for.

[yipster]

did not see that mountain pass commercial but hear last beetle is rolling of the line this month...
at 48' long, 12' beam, 13' 6' max ht, 29,000 lbs light and 40,000 max i voted the second option but its good to see there are still adventurers

[Tad]

I think the votes will reflect the mindset and economic situation of the voters. I find it impossible to justify the purchase of a pickup & trailer to move my 20' ketch twice a year. Few folk I know could contemplate the ownership of a serious truck and trailer to be used 3-4 times a year.

That got me thinking, how much boat one could fit inside the largest U-haul truck?

When faced with the combined requirements of economy (minimized resistance) and trailerability, I have often thought of Phil Bolger's idea utilizing removable fairings. The central section of the boat is your indoor living space and includes machinery. The forward and aft sections are bolt-on empty fairings. The after one could be a huge open cockpit with a removable canopy. So could the forward one, for that matter. Say a 30' rectangular central living section and two 20' fairings, 70' LOA with 12' beam would slide right along.

I really do not think one boat can do everything, nor do I believe a jillion systems are the key to happiness, safety, or seaworthiness. I think living with a particular boat's limitations is instructive and ultimately frees up much time to have fun! Which is what it's all about.

Best to all, Tad.

[yipster]

that are some elegant boats on your site Tad!

i was captured by your good powerboat article full of interesting info on powerboats, semi-displacement, planing hulls and more.

thanks, yipster

[Portager]

Tad;

If I were only going to trailer my boat twice a year, I’d ether rent a truck or, if I was going very far, I’d hire professional boat transporters. You can rent medium duty trucks, like I’ll need for Portager, all the way up to a class 9 tractor. You could also consider a used truck.

My problem is, I plan to keep my boat out of the water and I would like to use it once or twice a month plus a three to four week vacation each year. If I rented a truck every time I wanted to launch or recover, I’d be paying more in rent that I would for payments. Another problem with rental trucks is you need to make reservations a long time in advance. Sometimes my vacation plans are required to adjust to my work schedule, so being tied into a firm schedule would be a problem. My tax adviser says that if I have a single loan for the boat, truck and trailer, then the entire package qualifies as a second home and the interest is tax deductible. Since the truck qualifies for a 15 year loan, the payments are covered by the savings on slip fees (Southern California slip fees are steep), bottom paint and the tax deduction.

I don’t quite understand what you mean by the bolt-on fairings. I think the main advantage of movable sections would be to reduce the height on the trailer. Height is the biggest problem for trailerable boats. A 12’ beam by 70’ length would certainly be efficient underway, but I’d hate to trailer it. Maybe if you were living aboard and needed the room and you had professionals move it.

Regards;
Mike Schooley

[Tad]

Many thanks Yip.

Mike;

Sorry, I jumped to conclusions, from your post I got the idea that you would use the boat occasionally on longer trips. Certainly people do own and operate big tractor-trailer rigs for interesting endeavors. I am in awe of the folk who spend months on the road each year with giant truck/trailers loaded with livestock.

Once one accepts the ownership of he truck/trailer, the major problem or sticking point would be setup/knockdown time. How long does it take and how much hassle is it to get in and out of the water? A full cover for the boat will be desirable, but perhaps not necessary for local launching. But she would probably be stored with the cover on? A simple system to get that on and off would be nice.

Again, for me every pound or inch smaller this boat is, will make it easier to haul, launch, and recover. I would push really hard to make the boat smaller. Alternatively I agree that 46' is probably about right for 4 adults and 2 big dogs. The question then is, how often do you have a full complement aboard?

My thought on the removable fairings was to reduce trailering length while maximizing waterline length. Unfortunately this would be at the expense of added trailering height. The fairings would be empty tanks, very light, which could be unbolted and stored on the roof of the central section. Midsection height would be about 7'6", ends about 4'-5', total height 12'6". This would add considerably to your setup/knockdown time and effort. But it may negate the full cover requirement. It would add considerably to speed and range while cruising.

Variations on this theme could be a two section boat, living & machinery aft, removable fairing forward. Or an open bowed forward section with a removable cockpit that stored in the bow. I will try to work up a conceptual model in the next few days.

If you can find a copy of Bolger's book "Different Boats" the removable end concept is presented in detail. On the problem of maximum trailerable boats he writes, "It's a technical challenge so difficult that I think almost everybody who has taken it on has regretted it, no matter what some have said in public."

But it is an interesting exercise.

Best, Tad.

[Willallison]

OK Will here is the poll that you've been waiting for.

I'll be interested to see the response from others - but I think you've wrongly assumed that I think the boat is too big. In the general sense, I'd agree with Tad - the bigger the boat, the more limited your land-based travels become: Launching and recovery requires particularly good facilities, storage becomes more of an issue, etc, etc. On the other side of the coin, the larger the boat (to a point) the wider your cruising horizons become. As in all things boat related, the trick is to balance the various compromises such that they meet your needs.
As I may have told you, I recently towed my 27 footer 1/2 way up the Australian coast. With a bigger tow vehicle, I can't see why it would have been any more complicated had the boat been twice as long - transport trucks do it on a daily basis. Width however, would most certainly have limited my options.
Launching and recovering a boat that big definitely requires some thought. Are you planning on using 'boat lifts' for this (a crane) or are you thinking more along the lines of slipping her on and off at a traditional boat ramp?
Then there's the issue of securing the boat on the trailer. It took me about 3 hours to secure my boat on its trailer - mainly because the boat and trailer weren't permanently set up for each other. Being a metal boat, you could incorporate tie-down points into the design, greatly speeding this process up. I've found that over time, there are few greater impediments to going boating regularly than a long-winded packing / unpacking process. You may cope ok - even enjoy it - but the Admiral will probably tire of it all rather quickly!
Tad's concept of bolt-on sections is intriguing - but further complicates proceedings. As you suggest Tad...for occaisional use maybe, but not for the knid of regular boating Mike has in mind - I do however, look forward to seeing your concept drawings Tad...

So - after all that - I'd conclude that so long as you've examined the restrictions that a bigger boat imposes whilst it's land-locked (and knowing you, I'd be very surprised if you hadn't ) and your happy with the results, I think you should go for it. But sooner rather than later, 'cause you know you're meant to have a foot of boat for every year of your age - and if you talk about it for too long then the boat really will be too big to tow!

[Portager]

Tad;

No apologies necessary, I was only trying to explain my reasoning.

You're right about the launch preparation and recovery time being the biggest problem. The longer it takes, the less the boat will get used. That is part of the reason I gave up on the get-home-sail. My hope is that by thoroughly thinking through the launch and recovery process and practice, I'll be able to get it down to 15 to 30 minutes.

I think the deployable sections sounds interesting for a seasonal mover, but I wouldn't be interested in complicating the launch and recovery process on Portager.

I think it might be interesting to consider a movable structure to reduce the height (although not for Portager). For example if you could lift off the top of the pilothouse, say down to just below the window sill and secure it somewhere else for transit, you could reduce the height 3 to 4 feet. That would be quite significant for bridge clearance.

Will;

As usual I agree completely with all your thoughtful comments.

My plan for launching is to wet launch (i.e. submerge the trailer) locally to reduce travel lift expense. When I travel far from home, I'll use ramps if they are compatible and convenient, if not I'll use a travel lift.

You¡'re also right about the packing and unpacking hassle. We plan to permanently equip Portager will dishes, bedding towels, ¡K so all we should need to load are personal belongings, food, water, fuel, ¡K well no plan is perfect. You Great Pyrenees are known to be good pack animals. I wonder how many trips it would take my Great Pyrenees to load the boat? Actually, I'm thinking of a good dock cart that is compatible with the gangway and stores somewhere convenient on the truck.

I wasn't aware of the foot of boat per year of age requirement. I"ll ether need to accelerate the production schedule, make Portager even longer or slow down my rate of Birthdays. Maybe I get my birthday officially changed to February 29th.

Best regards to all and thanks for the thoughtful comments;
Mike Schooley

[Tad]

Above is my (in progress) model of Pagurus, a 3 section maxi-trailerable motoryacht. She has come out closer to a canal barge than an offshore trawler yacht. But that's okay, the canals of Europe, the intercostal waterway, rivers, lakes, and shallow spots the world over beckon.

The boat is 70' LOA, 69' LWl, beam is 12', hull draft at design weight is 15", 1/2 load displacement is 37,000 lbs. cruising speed could be 14 knots with a Volvo AD41P/DP 200 HP. She will do just over 11 knots with 100 HP installed. Construction is aluminum, the end pieces are each 20' long. The central living section is 30' by 12'. Fuel is in integral tanks under the cabin sole.

The engine will be installed under the pilothouse, the leg will run through a fairing over a notch in the after section. There will be a large hinged skeg/rudder in the aft section, it will swing up and down in a watertight well. The trailer tongue will be permanently mounted on the mid section, hidden under the foredeck when in water cruising mode. There will also be a retractable thruster in the bow of the mid section. I see no reason not to install the trailering wheels in wells amidships. They could swing up and down, with fairings to cover the holes when out boating.

She ended up a bit higher than anticipated in trailer mode, there is too much height to the midship section. Refinements could include lowering freeboard and adjusting the lengths so that the fore & aft sections mate together perfectly when on top.

There would be a sliding door in the forward bulkhead for access to the forward cockpit.

This concept has still got me intrigued, I can see doing one about 55' overall by about 9', with ends that would weigh about 300 pounds. Construction could be plywood, powered by an outboard or two.

Best to all, Tad

[duluthboats]

Just the boat for a hermit, who wants to take it all along.

Gary

[Willallison]

It's an interesting concept Tad. As always, I have questions!
How would you flip the end sections up?
What would provide a watertight seal between the various modules? Or would they be watertight in their own right?
How would you engineer the joint so that it is sufficiently strong when in 'boat' mode?

[Jeff]

I like the concept - the rendering above really has my imagination going full speed

I would think though that the 20' bow and stern sections would be considerably heavy and difficult to lower, rotate, align, and then bolt (?) into place, especially if they're to be stiff enough and watertight on their own (I'm not sure I would ever trust the joint if not...) - it seems like it would be quite a project to assemble each time.

[duluthboats]

For the few times it would be on a trailer, divide the load in half, take two trailers. This is one way I could build a 70 footer in my 45’ shed.

Gary

[Tad]

Gee, it's only a concept, guys. Now you want details!

Some keys to the take apart/put together issue are;

Each of the three pieces is totally independent of the others, the center is a watertight boat, the ends are empty watertight tanks.

Connection/disconnection will be done in the water.

Rolling the ends would be fairly easy in the water.

The ends are about 1600 lbs each with 1/4" aluminum skin and light framing.

As she draws only 15" of water, I see the connection being done next to the beach. Perhaps a 4 wheel drive pickup with a gin pole and winch on the front. Some rollers on the deck of the center section will help.

Gary is right about the shed size.

The bow can be fitted with an outboard for water skiing

The connection will be a pair of giant mortise & tenons, built of aluminum, in a reverse vee shape. These will be on the end bulkheads, slightly inboard of the hull side. The ends will float high, midship section low, a few people would sink the end enough to get it started, slip it together and insert the bolts.

A scale model needs to be built next.

Best, Tad.

[Portager]

Tad;

It is an interesting concept, but I think it is counter productive if your goal is transportability. You can trailer 65’ to 70’ long loads in most states without a pilot car, but you need to keep the height below 16’ max, 13.5' to 14' is much better. The folding sections reduce the length, but increase the height.

If your goal is to reduce length for winter storage, then the height would be irrelevant.

I would install a bulkhead at the end of each open section so the joint wouldn’t need to be water tight. Then provide a hinge at the top of the gunwales and a winch to hoist them up on the roof. I haven’t figured out how to get them back down yet.

Regards;
Mike Schooley