Pop 25

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by abh

The main reasons I like the design are:...
I thought the twin keels would give shallow draft, ....

I am specifying twin dagger-boards on my boat, just to provide less interference inside.

With boats under 30 fit, the centerboard case is a real pain the in the shins.

[PAR]

I have a centerboard boat design, 18' on deck, that hasn't a case inside the cabin, yet draws just 10.5" of water with the board fully retracted. The case is mounted about 9" off center and is housed under furniture. There's only a few inches difference (draft) between one tack and the other, so preformance issues will be nill, plus the interior is wide open without a case in the way.

This is just one way of handling this issue and it works well. There are other methods to address this, such as a stub keel that house most if not all of the retractable appendage. With the exception of huge tidal range areas, I see no reason to accept bilge keels on a boat. Of course, as with all things, compromises have to be accepted, but I think bilge keels or twin retractables (and their related difficulties) aren't as appropriate (in most cases) as other alternatives to this set of issues.

[Lister]

Originally Posted by abh

Hi all.

Pop 25

I'm quite interested in this design, it looks to be very affordable and easy build, and just about the size for me. I'm trying really hard to talk me out of building one and was hoping for your help.

What do you all think of this one?

No need for help, you like it, you built it. Then when built it, you will see that the accommodation will not work, the fore berth is not possible to put even two feet together, and the lady seated at the desk seams on a 40' boat.
It is a clever marketing, but the design need a lot of thinking, and R&D.
Then they can come up with a cute little video with the Pop 25 turning around.
Lister

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by PAR

I have a centerboard boat design, 18' on deck, that hasn't a case inside the cabin, yet draws just 10.5" of water with the board fully retracted. The case is mounted about 9" off center and is housed under furniture. There's only a few inches difference (draft) between one tack and the other, so preformance issues will be nill, plus the interior is wide open without a case in the way.

This is just one way of handling this issue and it works well. There are other methods to address this, such as a stub keel that house most if not all of the retractable appendage. With the exception of huge tidal range areas, I see no reason to accept bilge keels on a boat. Of course, as with all things, compromises have to be accepted, but I think bilge keels or twin retractables (and their related difficulties) aren't as appropriate (in most cases) as other alternatives to this set of issues.

Offsetting is a clever way to do it. It occurs to me that an offset centreboard is a single bilge keel to a certain extent :-)

The older Macgregors also had a dagger-board hinging in the 'keel', and they used the 'hump' as a step up into the settee area. The travel up and down the corridor could accommodate tall people quite easily.

Of course, the open slot required to accommodate the hinged board was a source of turbulence, and they changed it for a full dagger-board that became a big divider in the fore part of the cabin.

I guess sailing performance trade-offs for inside space are all a matter of priority and preference.

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by abh

Hi all.

Pop 25

I'm quite interested in this design.

I'm quite surprised to find a reference to the POP 25 here. I too was quite taken with the design.

I've had a set back, by way of poorly researched and poorly evaluated stock plan yacht designs. Thankfully I did not forge ahead with this particular design, and not too much fire wood was the result.

I've since made a more intelligent choice with the aid of a consultant. The POP 25 is not for every one, but it satisfies my needs more so that my earlier false start.

The "modern and out there" bold, angular and masculine hull form, again, is not for everyone, but does please me. I intend to use some of the design elements and colour pallets of Chrisco and Wallypower in finishing my POP 25.

I have learned that several examples are in a state of advanced construction in Brazil, and I believe one is near ready for launch. I believe I'll be the first to construct two such boats in Australia.

The design firm is communicative, helpful and was even receptive to my questions about extending the overall length to 9 metres to increase the saloon area and galley space. The response was not right now, as a rethink and redesign might be warranted. Not what I wanted to hear, but the right answer according to my consultant.

Like most builders, I'm setting up a blog and look forward to sharing my build with the forum.

[ducman]

I'm glad to see someone else likes the Pop 25 enough to actually build it. I have bought the plans but I've just decided to return to school so unfortunately it may be a while before I start the build. Do you have an address for your blog yet?

Jamie

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by ducman

Do you have an address for your blog yet?

Jamie

Hi there Jamie,

No not yet... Blogs etc are a little complicated in my case as I'm constructing the boat (two of them) for a documentary series.

A video podcast and blog system is being written even as I type this. We want to make sure it works well and is compatible with as many client side portals as possible.

While personally I'm only interested in the Blog and iPod/Apple TV, obviously Vimeo, YouTube and the endless list of other sites need consideration too, for this documentary series to gain any momentum.

We'll be shooting in 16:9 WS SD and trials have proven that even along the east coast almost as far north as Eden, download speeds using a mobile broadband dongle is adequate for WS SD without frustrating lag or delay.

We've not yet done a trial to the south west yet

I've registered a domain for the production company we're set up for this little project, 25fps.com.au. There is nothing there yet, but you're welcome to check back and hopefully be impressed with what my web-geek has achieved for us.

I suspect that building the boats will be the least of my problems. Building a "set" on screen while shooting a documentary series will be challenging.

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by ducman

I'm glad to see someone else likes the Pop 25 enough to actually build it. I have bought the plans but I've just decided to return to school so unfortunately it may be a while before I start the build. Do you have an address for your blog yet?

Jamie

We caved in and set up a blogger site, mostly to keep our family and friends in the loop.

You can find it at http://aboatcalledsplash.blogspot.com.au/

[ducman]

Great! So far so good. Look forward to reading more.

All the best, Jamie.

[idefix26]

I know the Pop25.

It has flat bottom and double torpedo keel. But, keel fins does not have any airfoil section. So, boat always drags during sailing. Besides, torpedo keel shape is not good about hydrodynamics. It affords stability, loses resistance.
I think drag is too important in a sail boat. You want to forward but, boat goes 1 mile forward 3 miles stb or ps

Boat L/B (Lenght/Max Beam) ratio is not satisfied. "B" is too large. So, boat gain resistance. "Slow boat"

I think design is not good. But, it is cheaper alternative.

[Me Tarzan]

Has a POP 25 actually been built and sea trialed? Only saw computer animations/renderings.

[idefix26]

Originally Posted by Me Tarzan

Has a POP 25 actually been built and sea trialed? Only saw computer animations/renderings.

I have never seen anything about it.

[messabout]

A cursory look at the details suggests, to me, that this is a design done by someone less than competant at boat design. I particularly question the plan view forward of center. I suspect that the Cp has not been adequately addressed. And the aft section, near the transom, looks as it it will be a tail dragger at even a small heel angle which makes us wonder why the twin rudders. I would not give this design much more than a polite look, Then I'd move on to a proven design by an acknowledged pro.

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by messabout

A cursory look at the details suggests, to me, that this is a design done by someone less than competant at boat design...

Well, we will soon know for sure. I understand one of the Brazilian builders, building his second boat from this same design firm should be near enough ready to launch.

I greatly look forward to his experiences and remarks.

[Steve W]

While i dont particularly like this design it is not by an incompetent designer.