Plywood Boat Design/Build/Race Competition From SNAME Norcal

[sname5ply]

I'm new to this forum, so my apologies if this is not in the proper location.

The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers' Northern California Section (SNAME Norcal) is sponsoring a sailing yacht design/build/race competition in which the primary rule is a material specification and limitation of 5 sheets of 4'x8'x1/4" plywood. More info and a complete set of rules is accessible by everyone at: www.sname.org/sname/5ply

Currently, the deadline for the design portion of the competition is December 15th, but it is probable that this will be extended to allow more contestants to join if they show a genuine interest by the current deadline. Designs will be accepted from everyone, but to compete in the racing portion of the contest, a contestant would have to join SNAME or its sister Society, ASNE, (American Society of Naval Engineers).

Because the contest requires folks to build and race their designs, the design entries need not be fully detailed plan sets, just enough information to fix the vessel's hull shape and prove that it meets the 5-sheet material rule. The contest web site has a sample design to illustrate one approach. (see also attached) new haven sharpy stye.PDF

Comments (and contestants) would be sincerely appreciated.

[Tom.151]

Heelo,

I must say that the basic idea of a "development class sailboat" that is restricted by the materials to be used is a great step in the right direction (I guess that would implicitly be my definition of the right direction, which besides being a great place for wannabe designers, it would be a great basis for youth groups, sailing clubs, etc., especially since it would be so easy to have various classes based on the number of sheets used)

Too bad they require "materials limited to... polyester resin for panel connections" -- and this for a boat that is required to be built from 1/4" ply -- really caught me off guard -- a bit surprising coming from an organization that ought to be up to date with the value of epoxy for small, lightweight wooden boat building.

If cost control is so important then a better place to force reduced costs would be rules that (a) required the mast/spars to also be made primarily from wood, and (b) use stock sails from existing one-design class boats or home made of any dimensions.

[PAR]

Offering a 12 day lead time (in this venue) on something like this is frankly insulting. Good luck with what you have, because it would be unlikely any new entries would result from this 12 day notification.

[tkk]

Looks like they weren´t very well received are now trying to get more attention

Originally Posted by sname5ply

Currently, the deadline for the design portion of the competition is December 15th, but it is probable that this will be extended to allow more contestants to join if they show a genuine interest by the current deadline.

[Tom.151]

Originally Posted by PAR

Offering a 12 day lead time (in this venue) on something like this is frankly insulting. Good luck with what you have, because it would be unlikely any new entries would result from this 12 day notification.

PAR,

You're right on the money there - as your contributions uniformly are.

I went to the SNAME site and their "5-ply" forum -- from the activity there (5 total posts since inception) it's seems their baby is still born.

But (I'm usually the butt) what's your thinking on the basic idea of a 5-sheet type rule for a development class? Not to say "5" is the magic number just asking your opinion of the basic concept of a design rule that is limited by the materials to be used as opposed to the traditional measurements or box rule approach. The "new haven sharpy" example that was referenced seemed a fair example of what can be done with 5 sheets.

If this topic (here at boatdesign.net) gets sufficient interest -- maybe a fresh start here, with some minor tweaking to their rules, would have some serious interest.

How much lead time would you recommend for something like this?

Thanks,

PS I also liked the idea that their "contest" included the boats actually being built and sailed

[tkk]

Originally Posted by Tom.151

PAR,
But (I'm usually the butt) what's your thinking on the basic idea of a 5-sheet type rule for a development class?

From a "non-professional designer but a keen hobbyist builder" point of view I can confirm that it is indeeda very good approach. It somehow sets the budget making it sure that the entries would be on a level field from builder/buyer point of view.

And the building and sailing part is the real reality check of the plans, really good.

[sname5ply]

The contest as it is at this point has only two contestants which I can verify will allow for an extension. Who among you will enter, and what amount of lead time do you need make this a fair contest?

The schedule sets the date of the first regatta in May which means that we could delay design entries into March if need be. I am now throwing down the gauntlet to anyone thrown off by the short lead time. It's now time to man (or woman) up and enter if you feel you have something to bring to the table and can be on the Alameda Estuary in May 2010...

No, really, if you'd like to enter, please contact me I'll do everything within my considerable power (at least within this small sphere) to make sure that you can compete.

Best Regards,

Joel (AKA )sname5ply

[cor]

I used to organized a simple event like this.

Every contestant started with the same pile of materials. Basically 2 sheets of 1/4" ply, 1/3 sheets of 3/4"ply (for rudder and dagger boards), a few 2x4's, something for a mast (sometimes wood, sometimes metal), lots of screws, and a few tubes of PL400.

We all got together on Saturday morning to start building, then we raced on Sunday. The losing boats normally ended up in the bonfire on Sunday night, the successful boats were sometimes saved to be played with again.

I ran this event for a few years and had a great time with it. Most of the boats were simple little sharpies, but we had an occasional interesting design, including a sailboard and a outrigger canoe.

I have a ton of photos and more info if anyone is interested.

C.O.

[Tiny Turnip]

I'd be interested to see some of your photos, Cor, sounds like a fun event.

[lewisboats]

Mee Three...interested that is!
Although...I would love to participate in the engineer's contest...I ain't an engineer and from what I read...you have to be a member to do pretty much anything, I wouldn't be able to go there and it would be difficult to build the boat until next spring...there should have been a couple of months of design time and at least 3 months build time built in to the thing. It would be fun to have our own similar virtual contest... but there are always folks who bitch about one of the rules or another and it gets into a urinating contest rather than a fun design exercise.

[cor]

Here are a coupe of photos from our races.

[lewisboats]

Here are a coupe of photos from our races.

Nice shots...that second one took some thought and has a smack of experience in the "design". Dovetailed leeboard brackets, gunnels, properly braced mast partner, gaff sail...someone had their "sierra" together.

[cor]

A couple more photos.

The boats we built had anywhere from 12 to 24 man hours in them depending on the experiance of the team building them. About half of that time was in the sail, mast, rudder, and other rigging. If you wanted to clean the boats up, sand the rough spots off and paint then you had to add a few more hours. The basic materials for the boats was around $150.

With careful layout you can build a reasonable size boat out of 2 sheets, about 3'-6" beam by 10' loa. Most teams used part of the 1/3 sheet of 3/4" for the transom. The simple sharpies sailed best with one or two people, but you could fit as many as four. With careful cutting and taping a polytarp made a decent sail.

C.O.

[messabout]

The competition, if the boats are to be sailed against one another, will yield a close facsimile of the Windmill class boat. One could plaigerize the class plans and be assured of having a very very competitve boat. I would hope that no one would do such a thing. May Clark Mills rest in peace.

[Brooks Dees]

Hey there you go! Nice photos! Thanks for that.

As one of the official contestants in this little shindig, I thought I might help with some perspective on it.

The notion that this is a real development class (while flattering) could not be further from reality. Honestly we've got sharpies, scows, proas, skiffs and probably a whole host of other ides floating around now. This is more akin to the one day boat competion, but with a little more forthought. The effort is to increase the the awareness and membership in the Society of Naval Archtects and Marine Engineers. By making all of the principles of naval archtecture as tangible as possible, the organizer is hoping to provide an outlet for weekend warriors and frustrated engineers while helping SNAME. The requirement for drawings is there to show intent and a modicum of professionalism. It's just proof of an intended solution to the challenge presented.

Really this is for fun and for the socieity. So sharpen your pencil and we'll see you on the estuary!

Thanks;
Broooks