PLASTIC BAGS and our WATER WORLD

[Boston]

the Gokstad ship is incredible

[masalai]

Hondaen, It (your plastic bags) may "bio-degrade" into something else - - usually still very bad for the environment at least but probably still very toxic, it is just that human eyes do not see it as the particles are small and mostly sink &/or are eaten by other lifeforms which as a consequence then die (no food for us) or ingest the toxicity and we eat them or what consumed them to in turn ingest the toxins - not good...

[Hondaen]

Yes it is

It is built for seaworthiness. It dont have the famous and more sleek design as the Oseberg ship. But the Oseberg ship is made for showoff. Not sailing in heavy sea.

Originally Posted by Boston

the Gokstad ship is incredible

[Frosty]

Very handy those Nowegian ships, popping across to the Engles land for a bit o raping and oh all sorts of stuff,--jolly good ole time.


Fortunately for the Engles most of them didnt make it across the treacherous North sea. A mere small sea I know but has a terrible temper and sometimes ,--just sometimes you may cross by gods good grace.

Many floundered with all hands, Good job for the Engles.

What were you saying about seaworthy?

[Boston]

I lived on cape cod for years and years
sailed between the Bay of Fundy and Long island often usually in nothing more than 30'
I have seen what a northeaster rolling in looks like and its a wake up call
the Scandinavian sailing tradition is amazing
those folks ventured out on the open sea in an era when the English wouldn't leave the site of land
the English learned a lot from the Scandinavians and that knowledge is what made em the sea power they were for so long

[Frosty]

Scandi sea power,-- when was that then?

I know they make Volvos and Abba lives there ,- but sea power?


By the way I was'nt talking Cape Cod,--I was talking the North sea.

Thats were oil rigs are, 100feet off the sea yet still get wiped out

[Boston]

my bad
I hear north sea
and I think of the north Atlantic
and the storms that would roll down the eastern sea board

[Hondaen]

Sorry for allt his off topic text.

Most of the vikings was farmers. Some of them, explored the world. They traveled f.ex to north america, greenland, baltic sea into russia down the rivers to turkey and throug the mediteranian up north to norway. You can find all sorts of art from africa, turkey, russia and so on in norwegian viking graves.

Yes some of them raped and stole goods. Who didnt. Brits are also known to colonize and bring back goods and slaves. That is not what I want do discuss. I`m into ship design, not politics

They are known to be good sailors and shipbuilders. They know what they where doing. They did not cross the north sea in the winter, with good reason. That was spring and summer activties.

I doubt your claim that their ships sunk on their way to england in huge numbers. It is not written down anywhere in any text. And their ships are proven to be very seaworty.

In late 1800, a norwegian built a replica of the Gokstad ship. He sailed it from Bergen/Norway to New York with no problem. Today it is displayed in Chicago.

Originally Posted by Frosty

Very handy those Nowegian ships, popping across to the Engles land for a bit o raping and oh all sorts of stuff,--jolly good ole time.


Fortunately for the Engles most of them didnt make it across the treacherous North sea. A mere small sea I know but has a terrible temper and sometimes ,--just sometimes you may cross by gods good grace.

Many floundered with all hands, Good job for the Engles.

What were you saying about seaworthy?

[Frosty]

We are in danger of discussing seaworthy --again. It is well known that most wrecks at the bottom are Oh just another ole viking ship.

The wreck is of more importance to its bounty that to its hull

The fact that some made these long journeys is more to the experience of the sailor than the boat , as is very much the case of any boat.

Your dead right about crossing the North sea in summer,---Oh boy.

[messabout]

I can not believe that I have just read the entire content of this thread. Brians original premise is too important to ignore. Bostons input, smashing. I have respect for academics including marine biologists, let us reserve some respect for Longliner and other fishermen too. The thread weaved in and out of topic but kept coming back to center.

I have been a volunteer boater in my inland Florida waters, for the purpose of picking up shoreline and waterborne trash. Local groups do cleanups periodically. The amount of trash that we take from a 1000 acre lake, in one day, is mind boggling. Literally tons of it. Plastic is one of the major offenders but there are plenty of other kinds of trash that does not belong in our waters. Beer cans, cigarette butts (tens of thousands of them), McDonald wrappers, and often enough, old tires, abandoned refrigerators, condoms, mattresses, and God knows what else. What are we thinking? We are poisoning our own wells. No, the people in my area are not all ill bred troglodytes. Some of them are entirely intelligent people who still discard trash as if there is no consequence.

Hey, I did not know that there is a points system for forum participants. Are you guys pulling my leg? I reckon I'd better mind my manners.

There is a very nice article in the January edition of Wooden Boat Magazine. It concerns the building and sailing/rowing of a viking ship. The trip from Ireland to Denmark is described in detail as are the structural features of the authenticly constructed boat. Some of the crew consisted of marine biologists and probably a few fishermen too. Interesting read. Now back to the plastic scourge please.

[Boston]

you would like Joshua Slokum's book

[brian eiland]

...from another forum by Stevenpet

A few weeks ago I was Google Earthing the Hawaiian Islands Archipelago and came across the Papahānaumokuākea Marine National Monument website at http://hawaiireef.noaa.gov/ I spent several evenings reading about the atolls and the islands.

One article specifically addressed the issue of plastics and marine life on the atolls at. It’s a good read and is written for the general public and is low in technical jargon:
http://www.hawaiianatolls.org/research/June2006/albatross_death.php

It was disheartening to see that several other island are more plastics-infected than Midway. How can we protect these islands from plastics? Do we need to send frequent plastics-foraging groups. Yet since the birds gather food far away from the island and return with it to feed their young, would that really solve the problem at all.

Originally Posted by excerpt from article

In a perfect world untainted by man, our chick’s diet would consist of fish and fish eggs, squid, and octopus. Yet in our world and the “age of plastics” the chick will likely be fed some amazing indigestible, synthetic products.

On July 1, 2006, Cynthia Vanderlip conducted a necropsy of a chick that had expired a few hours previous. The “chick” had a wing spread of 5 to 6 feet and weighed approximately 5 lbs. The contents of the bird’s stomach amazed and shocked the teachers and scientists. The dead chick was severely impacted and literally full of plastics. Some pieces were approximately 6 inches long and several were sharp and jagged. We could conclusively state this bird was killed by the plastic debris because of the observed puncture in the lining of the proventriculus. We removed the plastic from our bird and counted an excess of 306 pieces of plastic!!!

Although a chick may be fed plastics, once they reach fledgling age they are usually able to regurgitate the indigestible material and cleanse their bodies of the plastic. However, if the pieces are too large or in this case, large, sharp and piercing, the bird may die an agonizing death; totally impacted and/or the lining punctured. As we walked the paths of Green Island we observed many young dead albatross. After viewing this incredible necropsy we contemplate how many of these young birds may have met a similar fate to the one we necropsied. Our specimen was chosen at random, selected only because we realized it had died within the last few hours

...more here: http://www.hawaiianatolls.org/resear...ross_death.php

[Boston]

I have pictures of skeletons with chest cavities full of plastic
but I felt like shock therapy was not the way to go
but
some people will benefit from your picture
and so I respect your decision to post it

Ild like to see a plastics settlement similar to the cigarette settlement
that can be used to clean up plastics waste

the plastics industry can easily be proven to have known that plastics in the marine environment cause severe degradation to the food chain and act as a bio accumulator thus concentrating pollutants
in the light of the obvious threat to the ecosystem
the plastics industry must be held accountable

[marshmat]

There is a beach on the western end of Lake Ontario where much of the detritus and garbage from that area washes up in certain types of storms. The number of bald tires is astounding, but the amount of plastic even more so. And yet this beach is still fairly clean- it's like an operating room when compared to many other countries, or to that floating heap of trash in the central Pacific that is, by some reports, over 500 km wide now.

In related news, the city of Toronto is now planning not to ban plastic bags, but to require stores that use them to charge the customers individually for the cost of the bags. Seeing a small (5c) but very obvious line on the bill for each plastic bag used- and having to ask the clerk for bags- is expected to cut down substantially on their use. We'll see if (a) it passes, and (b) it works, in a few months.

[masalai]

Speaking of plastics, does that include Paris?