piss-poor boat plans!......

[Caldera Boats]

What is up with all you so called boat designers making completely **** plans? Learn to DRAFT! these half assed scribbled kids drawings of boats with a few numbers and "formulas", these abmoinations you call boatplans? $125! Kiss my ASS!!!!!!

[CET]

And a Merry Christmas to you, too.

[safewalrus]

Looks like we got an "expert" who can't read his plans and wants to take it out/blame everybody else

Nice one CET, but he's probably a little too thick to understand!

[D'ARTOIS]

Who made what? Oh yeah, ...beer for ballast.....

[Caldera Boats]

Thank you.

Merry Christmas to you!.

----------------------------------------
The problem with poorly drafted plans goes back a long time. I doubt anything that I rant about here is going to change the way a designer draws up plans. I just hope, for futures sake that the young designers coming up learn and utilize drafting standards. Boats are no different than airplanes, automobiles or anything else when it comes to drafting, except that the latter usually has highly detailed drawings showing a measurement for each and every part and dimension. The difference from one designer to the other is huge. Some use offset tables, some use full size flat patterns, some actually use measurements.

I prefer an offset table. Any designer who does not know and fully understand lofting, has no business selling plans.

I have wasted enough money on unusable plans to warrant this "ranting" and blow off a little steam.........

Thanks.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SailDesign]

CAldera,
You list yourself as a designer. Why not build to your own plans and save the rant?
Or is it your own plans you're ranting about...
Steve

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

What is up with all you so called boat designers making completely **** plans? Learn to DRAFT! these half assed scribbled kids drawings of boats with a few numbers and "formulas", these abmoinations you call boatplans? $125! Kiss my ASS!!!!!!

Perhaps, Caldera, you should show us an example of these "@#%#(faulty) plans'. I just recently finished drawing some boat plans of my own. They are for a 3 x 12ft sailing scow which is little more than a box with a fore and aft curved deck and bottom.

I wanted them to be on standard 8.5 x 11 sheets so copying them and mailing them would not be a problem. It turned out taking 18 of them. I have everything from 'lines' and 'construction layout' to drawings of jigs needed to make the hardest to 'get right' parts.

Once I build the prototype to make sure it works (after all, this is the 1st set of plans I will ever try to market) I will sell the plans as well as simplified lofting instructions for around $35 apiece.

Showing us an example of what you consider '$#@& (faulty) Plans' (or describing them in detail) could help us future designers avoid pissing you off.

Bob

P.S. atached is a presentation drawing of my first (hopefully) marketable boat.

[lewisboats]

Love to look at it but you (like I often do) forgot the attachement

Steve

[CET]

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

Thank you.

Merry Christmas to you!.

----------------------------------------
The problem with poorly drafted plans goes back a long time. I doubt anything that I rant about here is going to change the way a designer draws up plans. I just hope, for futures sake that the young designers coming up learn and utilize drafting standards. Boats are no different than airplanes, automobiles or anything else when it comes to drafting, except that the latter usually has highly detailed drawings showing a measurement for each and every part and dimension. The difference from one designer to the other is huge. Some use offset tables, some use full size flat patterns, some actually use measurements.

I prefer an offset table. Any designer who does not know and fully understand lofting, has no business selling plans.

I have wasted enough money on unusable plans to warrant this "ranting" and blow off a little steam.........

Thanks.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caldera - do the "plans" look any better now that you are sober? Sorry, I couldn't resist.v

Seriously, I agree with the sentiment of your original post, if not with the delivery. I purchased a set of plans earlier this year that were quite dissapointing, to say the least. The boat they describe may be a good one, but I'll never personally find out.

[gonzo]

Caldera Boats: I think you are one of those cheapskates that buys discount plans and expects something good. Pay for quality and you will get it. By the way, your attitude sucks.

[bodenbp]

Read our website WWW.bodenboatplans.com and you will see how we approach "qualifying " the persons who buy our plans. It costs us a lot in lost sales but we sleep well at night. Boden BP

[safewalrus]

go it Gonzo tell it like it is! Totally agree with you on this one! But CET may have something!

[Caldera Boats]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Caldera Boats: I think you are one of those cheapskates that buys discount plans and expects something good. Pay for quality and you will get it. By the way, your attitude sucks.

Yep, my attitude sucks!, and I'm proud of it!

Respect few and fear none.......

[Caldera Boats]

Here is a list of things that I think a quality set of amateur boat plans should include:

Offsets table - Always include offsets, even if you think they might not be needed, or your plans are the "No lofting required" type. Believe it or not, some boat builders still prefer to loft.

Scaled line drawings - Plan, Profile and Body view. Detail and dimension as much as possible without overcrowding the drawings. Use multiple copies of the same view if necessary. There cannot be too many details. Redundancy is ok if not overdone. Most of all! Please use standard drafting practices. There are “rules” to drafting just like everything else.

Build specifications - These are usually associated with numbered balloons on the drawings. These need to be as clear and accurate as possible. Remember, the builder reading your plans has not built this boat before.

Sub component drawings – These need to be FULLY defined with ALL dimensions. That means dimensions on everything, including all angles, holes, radiuses and hardware. If the builder chooses to vary from these plans, that is his choice, but the details are all there for the builder who prefers to build exactly like the plans.

Bill of materials – All lumber, hardware, fasteners, epoxy, glue and any other materials needed to complete the design. These may vary with each builder, but a good solid estimate would be nice.

Build Schedule – There is a specific order to building a boat, this is just a list of that order. This can be a lifesaver for a first time or amateur builder who may have never built a boat before. What to do, and when to do it.

Building frame and/or mold drawings - Molds, jigs, strongbacks, ladderframes or whatever is needed to set up the building frame. Professional builders can get molds from the lofting, but detailed drawings are real nice for amateur builders or plans that are "No lofting required"

A few things that are nice to see in a set of plans, but are not required are:
Flat patterns for panels
Scantling table
Photos
Build options
Sail plan options
Digital drawings (.DXF is standard) – These are great for cutting panels on a CNC router.

I’m sure there is more that I’m overlooking, but this is a good start.

Please, Do not pay for plans that have not been built before!!!
If the boat has not been prototyped and tested, the designer should NOT sell the plans to the public. Some designers will offer first time plans to builders for free in exchange for details and photos of the prototyping process.

[JEM]

I disagree on a couple things. Or maybe I should say I have a different opinion.

Offsets table - That's a matter of preference. If the table is what truly sells plans, the designer will discover that soon enough.

Prototyping: Lots of good designs are built from plans that are not prototyped. It's a matter of how much the designer is trusted.

However, I will say this: I deal with canoes and kayaks. Should someone build a 60' power cat from drawings I do? NO!