Perfect Cruising boat?

[john.G]

I've actually been looking at a ted brewer design with twin keels.You can find it on his site www.tedbrewer.com/sail_steel/arden_steel.htm

It needs a pilothouse and I'd change the rig to staysail schooner or ketch.

Anyone care to give an opinion on it?

[Wellydeckhand]

The design is good and even I could find no fault.... Ted Brewer is a good design who is author of his own book. Cant get that much wrong with a veteran.

I think you can contact him personally, I would also like to know of the pilothouse possibility.

WDH

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by john.G

I've actually been looking at a ted brewer design with twin keels.You can find it on his site www.tedbrewer.com/sail_steel/arden_steel.htm
It needs a pilothouse and I'd change the rig to staysail schooner or ketch.
Anyone care to give an opinion on it?

I think she looks very nice, and I agree with you a pilothouse would be a most interesting feature.

Data, from Ted's pages:
DISPL/LENGTH RATIO---177.7
SA/DISPL RATIO---17.42
CAPSIZE SCREENING FACTOR---1.58

She seems to be a safe, light sailing cruiser. Option with those two engines very close to the centerline, although more expensive, is nice from the point of view of safety, and may be even fuel efficient and engines caring, because it allows to adjust engines' power as one of them alone being able to efficiently motor the boat at 1.1 S/L ratio, in spite of the propeller offset. Something to ask Ted.

I find curious the double bed arrangement at the starboard side of the engines room....It's a little bit of a niche....

[john.G]

Guillermo,
I thought the same about the berth arrangement. I'd be inclined to dump the third cabin in favour of a larger saloon with convertible dinette or quarter berths.

The area behind the engine room bulkhead could become part of the engine room. My background is in commercial fishing and one thing I've learnt is that there is no such thing as too much room around an engine, particularly once you throw in a locker for tools and parts and then try and fit a generator.

I like twin engines, but with sails I'd prefer a single slow reving diesel and a bow thruster.

It's the sail rig I don't know much about. As a tern schooner all I can see is a lot of dollars worth of masts and standing rigging. The self tacking idea is great, but reefing furlers on a staysail schooner sounds easy too.

Any ideas where I could get a reliable comparison of the different rigs
in terms of performance. Sail is not my area of expertise.

thank you

[Wellydeckhand]

some sample of yachts that can be name as prefect cruising? Wanna try?

[Milan]

Nice boat Arden, reminds me of L. Francis Herreshoff's Marco Polo a bit.

Three masts divided sail area in easily manageable proportions, but with present day materials, I would rather use two masts with fully battened big roach sails, (as on a this attached very rough drawing). This configuration is more efficient, faster, with less weight and windage.

Milan

[Wellydeckhand]

will that big sail easy one man control? That is always my question for that particular sail....... it would be nice to put one on my future boat.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

will that big sail easy one man control?...

With a lazy-jacks, it's easy. This isn't cheap rig however. Such rig needs top quality sail tracks, travelers, battcars, battens e.c.t. but in this particular case it's compensated by savings on the third mast.

Milan

[Vega]

Big sailboats with small crews use furling booms.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by Vega

Big sailboats with small crews use furling booms.

Yes, or furling in the mast, even more often. I don't like neither solution, as it means quite a few compromises in the sail efficiency, (Boom furling is better in that respect then must furling).

Milan

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Milan

Yes, or furling in the mast, even more often. I don't like neither solution, as it means quite a few compromises in the sail efficiency, (Boom furling is better in that respect then mast furling).

Milan

Small sailingboats (less than 60ft) use furling in the mast, the really big ones use boom furling. As you said, boom furling is better not only in performance but also in safety (you can always put the sails down manually if the system jams).

[FAST FRED]

"As you said, boom furling is better not only in performance but also in safety (you can always put the sails down manually if the system jams)."

If performance is measured by the lack of effort to reef the roller is IT!

If performance and excellent sail shape while shortened is needed , the
"old" way of tieing in a reef gives far, far superior sail shape , and efficency.

FAST FRED

[Milan]

Originally Posted by Vega

...also in safety (you can always put the sails down manually if the system jams).

Yes, that's reason enough for me to not consider reefing in mast for the offshore boat at all. Performance of sail for such reefing system is bad as well. (They can't use battens and have hollow leech, so it's expensive tall mast for comparatively very little sail area and about 10% of the highest part of the sail is so narrow that it's practically useless, making only turbulence.

My favorite is combination of the good old fashion lazy jacks, slab reefing and modern powerful winch for raising the sail. I would also keep boom fairly low to be able to reach reefing lines from the deck.

On this boat, Arden, masts for the rig, which I proposed, would be around 17-18 m above the deck, that's manageable.

Milan

[Vega]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

"As you said, boom furling is better not only in performance but also in safety (you can always put the sails down manually if the system jams)."

If performance is measured by the lack of effort to reef the roller is IT!

If performance and excellent sail shape while shortened is needed , the
"old" way of tieing in a reef gives far, far superior sail shape , and efficency.

FAST FRED

of course, but try to sail alone a 70ft sailboat and do some reefing...and then you understand what I am talking about.

[FAST FRED]

of course, but try to sail alone a 70ft sailboat and do some reefing...

With a 70 ft waterline most any shape sail will get 8k+ so rolling the main up like a windowshade is just fine.

Most folks have smaller than 70 ft boats and need to MAXIMISE the vessels performance , rather than compromise performance to be able to work the boat.

Different folks , different strokes.

FAST FRED