Outrigger Keel Plane Question

Excellent...made my day, combined with a 46 degree morning.

 

Good to see you're still afflicted with the illness Bob. Yea is was terrible down here last night too. We dropped into the upper 40's again. Damn winter sucks, we only reached 69 in the afternoon. We'll be in the low 70's for the rest of the week and this is the coldest month of the year for us (shortest daylight hours).

 

For ungodly, various reasons, we remain north, but this year, barring problems, I at least will be going to Apalachicola for a look-see, with intent to move or do the snowbird trick...I have friend in Tallahassee who puts flannel sheets on bed for winter and was complaining our area was warmer last two days. When project goes wet, be going down.

Like you noted, shorter days make for cold and we will get more cold than we want next month and Feb...I think our Native Americans still call Feb the time of the "popping trees" when the trees snap open for the frost...not my cuppa.

Too many "three dog nights" here for me...I used to live south of Miami next to a place called Vizcaya, in another time...loved the warm and the damp heat.

Now back to warm bed.

 

Hey thar bobbill, Groovy project you got going. I built a modified Gary Dierkings 24' outrigger sailing canoe 2 years ago. What a blast sailing that sweetie is. Clocked at 16 knots and did 10 to 12 all day long. Her name is coyote and she moves like one. Most of the outrigger canoes ama,s are riding on the suface with not much below keeping drag to a minimum. coyote's ama drew about 2 inches of water and the aka's were just about level. The ama was 12.5 feet long and was a little bit forward of the middle point of the main hull. At times it had trouble going thru a port tack, probably because the ama had be pulled around thru the tack by the main hull. A starboard tack was always easier as the main hull was pivoting around the ama. I made a lateen sail for it and it might be a little under canvassed. In the future I plan on building sort of modern crab claw on a stub mast basically so I can learn more about this rig that took the Polynesians for so many thousands of miles. But any how, if your ama is on the starboard side you may have trouble tacking as well with the more wetted surface and longer ama. I sometimes end up helping it thru with a paddle,not the end of the world. but once she's on any kind of reach off she goes and I'm sure yours wiil crank along on a reach as well. Hold on to your hat and have a blast!Hope you let us know how she went and disclose you secret sail plan.Junk rigged? Hmmm, theres a thought, mix things up a bit. Okay, have fun..peace out..................g

 

24 feet is the big Ulua...same from his book? My boat is slightly different in that the plans you used sort of get you to a balance on the wet by design, I have to design to get wet.

Plus, the outrigger itself (H-16 starboard hull) serves as sort of a foil when wet, so I am hoping to use the shorter but wider Hobie 18 dagger and slightly longer rudder blade (foil) with that asymmetrical outrigger hull and keep it all together when the outrigger rises.

My problem is/was how much of the outrigger or ama/hull is wet to begin with...so I figured I had little choice but accept the draft of the H-16 outrigger and go from there.

Trick is, how to set it up beforehand and why I am using spacers to be able to alter the distance between the akas and the ama, if that makes sense.

I sort of understand the outriggers are generally surface only akas and lift clear when on the opposite tack...I am thinking of have a similar experience but also want to set the bunks on the trailer to nearly fit the boat as it sits on the water...one of the many odd-ball problems I face on every turn.

As to semi crab claw sail...I put up pix of the orig Malibu sail, which, to me is optimum for that rig, and with small jib and sprit, might be the best...it is simple but the gooseneck build is key, as it has to fit the stubby and allow the spars to act independently.

I designed the gooseneck to fit the AL stubby in conjunction with converted shackles and steel inserts to spars...and should do trick...will add pic later as on other computer.

The alterations I had to make include a fore stay and shrouds to support the stubby...the H-18 hull construction cannot take the stresses of a free standing rig that large (220 square feet) that the MO calls for.

I am also using carbon spars on the outer half of the spars and 6061 inboard.

Sail foot will attach at gooseneck and boom end ("loose), and the luff attached the the 26 foot spar using hook and loop with blocks hung on anchored webbing...

Crazy, but no many alternatives considering.

 

hi again bobbill

The outrigger canoe design I modified was the 24' plywood model. I didn't like the boxy look so I built it with a nice sweeping shear and curved stem and stern. The main hull had a beam of 16" on the bottom, about 24" on the top midship. I also made the hull deeper as the waters up here can get rough in a hurry. the ama was just a smaller version of the main. I think the beam is about 6'5" cl to cl. So, if you set up both hulls side by side and block up h16 until both waterlines are at the same height you will the see the difference in deck heights and can make your spacers so the aka's are level across. Are you stepping your mast on the larger hull? If you put a mast step in the bottom of the hull [access?] with either a hole thru the deck or some kind of mast partner at deck level that would give you more than enough bury for the mast. You could then eliminate the shrouds. That is if your mast is strong enough to be free standing. Am I making any sense here,sometimes I wonder! It's good to see someone thinking outside the box and just going for it. I'm sure your in for a joy ride, speed under sail is awesome to say the least. I've been messing around with a two masted junk rigged 45' catamaran design for a while. I can't help it, it's stuck in my head.Who knows maybe someday...................................g

 

George, I was advised the Hobie 18 hull was not able to handle the stress of an un-stayed rig...stubby would end up same pressures at the step, even if I buried the base in a pocket, which is sort of the plan, and braced the deck. The addition of shroud will improve the matter substantially and I was likely going to add them to also offer easy hand holds...I am used to hanging on the wires.

The center pic above is close to my plan-it is basically a Malibu Outrigger/Dragonfly (White) outrigger using the cast off hulls...mast on the main hull (port), of course. I wanted to use a Tornado main hull and beams but could not locate a trailer for transport...so the Hobie hulls are it. I bought the MO plans to base the work on...but I still covet a Tornado hull as the perfect main hull.

The mast step problem is primarily due to the H-18 hull being basically a foam sandwich with a bow, stern and dagger case as reinforcements, with deck, and (apparently). It is light and (apparently) too light to handle the pressures, which may be 3000 lbs distributed throughout the hull from the step, hence the shrouds to spread the stress to the akas and more of the boat.

I am not anywhere near being a MA, so I tend to be cautious and overbuild, meaning I will have to add glass and carbon "struts" to the interior, connected to the step, besides the deck braces etc.

Over-built and safe might be best, rather than a failure later...you get my drift. Should carry 220 square feet of sail in decent pressure and gusts, like the original MO.

You have a pic of the modified Dierking hull? Be interested in seeing it!

 

Hi Bob,
I have #194 Malibu Outrigger Canoe and read you have built one from the plans? We are in the process of planning a complete restoration of 194 and possibly splash a mold off her as well. We have a number of individuals interested in buying a new completed fiberglass/ carbon MOC. We are toying with the idea of fabricating and selling the fiberglass/ carbon main hull and ama bare to individuals to finish themselves. Maybe include the glued up but not shaped wood parts. I've enjoyed reading your past posts on your MOC build and I'D like to share some thoughts.
CHEERS!

 

Never contacted him...as rig does wonders with stays y'all advised me to use but now doing some more stuff...new outrigger, cockpit and mast step....