Old people can answer this question! : )

Boston, I always beefed up homes and buildings, however I was dealing with snow loads, some as high as 250lbs per sq. ft. near Donner Lake. In dealing with hardwoods if 1" material is called out, then 1.5" material is acceptable in softwoods and usually weighs the same. All structural frames I use are Doug Fir CVG or SS and I hand pick it out. Loes and Home Depot in Oregon sell 2x4 and 2 x 6 @2 and better and let you cull through. In 18 boards I found 5- 2 x 4 CVG and paid $2.04 each for 10' pcs. In culling 2 x 6 x 10' I went thru about 40 pcs to find 7 CVG and paid $3.19 each. Thats 30 cents a BF. They are sopping wet but are in a heated space until I find a kiln where they will let me throw in 30 pcs for about $15.00. JUst some info for you. With epoxy DF will last 50 years or much longer if kept dry. Wood lasts Generations.
Best to you, Stan PS Looking at 20' - 22' stock now for stringers. all nominal deminsions of course. I expect to pay for frames and stringers and double cross ties (20) and dbl keels on my 30' x 9' cat to be under $300.00 and that is a true statement. Now, if only the price of bronze screws and bolts would come down..................... Go here and on the left click on wood, pywood and click on boat building wood and under hardwoods you will find white oak. Not to be used with epoxy in salt water. then go on to softwoods. lots of info here. http://www.glen-l.com/

 

when I patterned Lulworth & made a new lines plan, primarily for the new lead keel, but also for models & documentation, I found the original build was 2" wider on the stbd side, this 120 foot yacht was built in 7 months so error crept in

 

I most certainly will
I also very much appreciate the tip
I always build a tad "heavy" and my customers have always commented on how solid there houses feel
I even built one in a hundred and fifty mile wind zone
now that was one beefy house

the pay extra for materials part I dont mind so much
but the places adjacent components under additional stress part does raise an eyebrow

my thinking is Im going to be in colder waters and know all about hitting ice
Im not building an ice breaker
but I want to not wince every time I hear a chunk go bouncing down the planking
I was thinking of planking it like a cold molded with two diagonal layers and one longitudinal
but again
its just thoughts at this point as to how to build the bomb hull

and thanks Ras
soon as I get some sleep Ill check out the site
there is a special epoxy for white oak now that is supposed to be great
Ill do some experimenting and some boiling and see for myself
thing is its about 150 a gallon
I can get white oak custom cut and milled to spec for 2 a foot
under if I order in bulk
a wild guess on the scantlings and I come up with 3,150 board feet of white oak and 2,250 board feet of red ceder and about 2,500 feet of cherry for the deck houses and interior trim
ordering it all at once I can get my cost per foot down to about $1.50
thats a tad over ten k for the majority of the wood
Im happy with that and I get top quality custom cut personally selected tree bowls out of Missouri
cut in an old time mill and kiln dried to specification

after that its lead and paint and Im rolling out

Ive done lots of crazy builds with white oak and I love the stuff
pine is pine no mater how you slice it

Peter
hmmmmm
nice call on the price one can pay for moving at to ambitious of a pace
Ild be one pissed off pup if my brand new yacht I payed gods only knows how much for was two inches off

my thinking on that would be similar to my thinking on bracing a house
leave all bracing in till all framing is complete
ive seen housed get all screwed up just cause some fool pulled the braces before he had the frame done
my molds will be multiple layers of plywood jigsawed together in a three dimensional grid pattern and left in after rolling untill all deck beams are in and all is fully planked
I can cut em out when the time comes but trying to preserve em is a mistake I learned not to make as a kid
any way this is getting long so Ill call it
thanks folks
B

 

If I remember correctly she's a carvel build, not a molded build (though I do think there's a strip option available). Considerable re-engineering would be required to convert the planking to molded. Again, it's not wise to make this level of alteration to the scantlings without a full understanding of the structure and it's engineering.

 

I think you are right on the carvel call
but there is an option
Ild obviously consult Ted when the time comes but untill I actually send him some money Im not going to bug him
my theory is that if I mold it I will only be making it stiffer in a uniform way
cant possibly screw up to much if I also beef up the top side accordingly
basically just stiffening the skin

 

"start to finish this project is going to take one year come hell or high water
if I have to hire more guys so be it "

Start wit a crew , the work goes faster.

When we built commercial boats , it was just a question of X manhours to complete.

A crew will make EZ tasks that will tax a single worker , and the time to build is less! with a rational sized crew.

FF

 

this link is an adhesive for white oak and epoxy. may be the one your talking about or a new one for you. Expensive...
http://www.star-distributing.com/smith/oakandteak.html Makes no mention of Salt water usage.

 

perfect advice Fred
thats my thinkin on this
its sounds like more man hours than I thought but thats just more guys
and a few more bucks

nother little theory I have is
if I were looking to save money
I wouldnt be building a yacht

 

Many folks seem to think a boat is just a little house when it comes to construction time or effort. Houses go together quickly as all parts can be stock sizes and simple square fits are the norm.

A boat is not a house....Actually a properly built wooden boat is closer to gigantic piece of furniture, one where no joint is the same, and everything is at odd angles with varying bevels. Going into it house builders never understand why boats take so long to build, but it comes to them once they start trying to fit the pieces together.

 

this is one of the best descriptions of our work i've ever read, "While the springtime turned slowly into autumn",Dylan

 

If at all possible, can you buy the land to build your private boat on, it will save you thousands & you can always sell the land

 

having built many pieces of furniture and other custom pieces
I can appreciate where you are coming from
and having most of my adult experience in custom homes
it particularly hits home
at the same time
I look at this frame and I keep thinkin
ok Ill do this then that then this again and done and on to the next step
thing is
the most common error Ive made in estimating time
is looking at how long it would take "me" to do something
and it may take someone else
since there is only so many of me
a little longer

teds straight up design actually looks like a wonderful old school design
needing little or no glue
If I were to steam bend and go with stick frame it seams that bolts and hook scarfs would do the trick
not sure but looking at this thing Ild wonder if my grand dad and Ted didnt go to the same school
I think its what I love so much about it is that I understand it
simple straight forward old school
Carvel or Clinker built
same thing I did way back in the day in the boat house with my dad and grand dad
so many moons ago
ah
memories

Sofia Christina is perfect for me
or maybe the big friendship sloop
but either way
its just rings true to everything I did as a kid learning the trade

B
Resornic
I bookmarked the page
thanks
B

 

WELL SAID

boy have you nailed it with that one
especially for the "beginners"
boat building takes TIME - LOTS OF TIME
thanks TAD

 

funny shapes and crazy furniture are my specialty



we called this the Darth Vader house
ugliest house on the planet
I did a remodel on it and personally did all the glass and beam work



then of course there is the frame of that English conservatory



I built this thing out of Sitka spruce in about a month
was particularly difficult because all the glass was pre ordered ( I was pretty confident in my prints so I decided to save some time and go ahead and order ) and I had about a sixteenth all the way around each piece to work with
so if I wanted that last piece to fit I needed all the rest perfect
oh
every piece fit first time
I was dam proud of that thing
I hear you on the big project and keep it coming
I very much appreciate all the advice folks
am going to need it

one thing I was thinkin
I hate working upside down
on the schooner I was thinkin ( feel free if this is a dumb idea so sing out )
I want to build some serious molds and flip her over in them
the molds with be out of plywood and in a three dimensional grid like interlocking configuration with multiple laser holes to keep the thing perfect and plumb
I also hate jury rigged scaffolding
old Roby would have bad scaffolding sitting out in the yard wherever it landed if he thought it was crooked or simply not up to snuff
so I learned the value of neat looking early
thing is I was thinking if Im building the hull upside down
why dont I put a set of steps in the molds all the way around to stand on while I work
Ive never worked on a huge boat before on my own
so Im just trying to think of ways to make things go smoothly
I would dearly love to just walk up the hull with a piece in hand walk up the molds to the required altitude and stick it in place
Sophia stands twelve feet
so the last thing I want is to waist time crawling on my back or weaseling my way up some pretzel looking scaffolding
Im ok with building some seriously beefy molds
if it means I end up with a straight and accurate boat
sorry that was kinda long
but you guys are a gold mine

B

oh
also was thinking of poring a caisson to set my laser up on
thing is I know that slab Im working on is going to breath some with the seasons
Ill go with a benchmark but Im concerned about the slab underneath the molds staying straight
( I could build it over grade beams but now we are talking money )
if I poor my own and Im not certain I will
Ill poor it over lots of squeegee but still
whats the verdict on building on jacks or building to the floor with shims
who does what and whats the general consensus as to which ends up most accurate

 

From a building point the best part of a wooden boat its its built piece by piece, so if a new part is unacceptable it can be tossed and a better fitting part made.

The boats that pop out of a vacum bag have ONE CHANCE , to be perfect , a miss gets the entire hull scrapped.

If I were building in wood (UGH! much prefer the Franz Mass male plug AIREX method) I would use a cold molded system of multiple layers of thin plywood covered with an epoxy+ dynell surface.

Far less skills are required than std carvell planking , and it need not have the slab side look of ply sheets.

FF