Oceanic Satellite

[BullSeal]

I have designs for a autonomous global ocean going satellite to monitor and collect data while riding like a stowaway on the hulls of commercial shipping. It is a sort of robotic "sucker fish" that will attach magnetically to any visiting ocean going ship. This will allow unbiased monitoring of pollution and water quality. It will open a new channel to free and unmonitored traffic of this vital information. This may be considered an exploitation of the commercial shipping system, but I think the cost is negligible for the opportunity it offers.

[Luckless]

"I think the cost is negligible" is a very bad way to start off an argument for anything relating to business. How do you know this? What does your robotic "Sucker Fish" actually do? What kind of interference can it cause?

It sounds like such a device would be illegal from what you have said so far. I don't care how honourable your intentions are, but you can't just go around and randomly attach stuff to other people's property. What data are you collecting? How are you collecting it?

Why do you want to have these devices attach to ships? This doesn't provide an 'unbiased' monitoring, but rather limited monitoring on shipping lanes. Wouldn't dropping buoys in carefully calculated locations be better if you're looking to monitor water qualities?

Also, how are these things powered? What happens when they run out of power? Will they become just another piece of trash floating in the ocean at the end of their life cycle?

[BullSeal]

Its data, not business, think of the input for the global warming argument. It is very low cost due to not having to organize the global distribution network that global shipping affords! I guess this could be mis-appropriated, but don't you think that issue has been addressed by our protective government already?

[Lurvio]

You wont be getting unbiased data by attaching to a ship sailing the shipping routes.

[CDK]

Did you find a solution for powering the device, the GPS shadow from the hull and long distance monitoring the signal?

[DaGnome]

Sounds like a good idea! It seems as though the design could also be used by the Govs. to keep track of vessels. And maybe a few other uses also!!

[DrCraze]

Why not just let it go with the flow. Let it ride the ocean currents. You'll get tons of data for years until it hits a gyre and stays put.

[DaGnome]

Originally Posted by DrCraze

Why not just let it go with the flow. Let it ride the ocean currents. You'll get tons of data for years until it hits a gyre stays put.

Maybe its uses are better defined than just going with the flow!

[Stumble]

Hmm,

This sounds illegal as all hell. Now a lot of boats would probably be willing to let you attach these sensors to their hulls, and all of the major lines already have GPS tracking equipment on their boats, so I doubt that would be a problem. But if you just go and attach anything to a hull without the owners permission you have committed piracy, likely smuggeling, and certainly cost the owners money.

Not to mention the export of some of this technology may be limited by your local laws, so you might also wind up with all sorts of technology dissemination problems as well.

[BullSeal]

Stumble, All good reasons to do it without it being known. The propulsion will double as a generator when in the flow of the "donor" ship. It needs less than a mile range and can be collected for the samples and data in any port. Could also be a Hobo-like fed-ex.

The idea is to deploy this remotely onto a ship heading across a desired ocean. It is magnetically attached and forms a streamlined scab on the ship hull. Collects samples and chemical data at various stages in route. Once it makes the end port, either it is "called" to shore and picked up by an associate or circumnavigates with the donor ship back to "home". We are looking into the ATT global cell service for data/location transmit with a device using the ship hull contact for best signal. Sonic ping seeking retrieval/insertion tracking is considered, but for now it will run semi-sub to the target donor ship following a cheap infrared beam and on-board snorkel mounted night cam, RC controlled with video goggles from shore based controller.

It may be released in route to gather deeper/wider data longer, picked up by passing sea lane traffic to continue.

I'll post some images of the model soon.

[Lurvio]

BullSeal
How do you avoid the props if you attach to/detach from a moving ship?

[Luckless]

Originally Posted by BullSeal

Its data, not business, think of the input for the global warming argument. It is very low cost due to not having to organize the global distribution network that global shipping affords! I guess this could be mis-appropriated, but don't you think that issue has been addressed by our protective government already?

Ah, no. This very much IS businesses. Where does the energy required to move this device around the world come from? Not from you or your device, but from the ship you are leeching off of.

Yes, such a device is useful, but ASK before you put it on the hull. If you demonstrate that it produces minimal drag and efficiency loss, and that it won't harm the boat, then I'm sure you wouldn't have too much trouble finding ships willing to haul one along. Plus you wouldn't need the equipment to have it swim, just show up to the port with a small boat.

[DaGnome]

Originally Posted by BullSeal

Stumble, All good reasons to do it without it being known. The propulsion will double as a generator when in the flow of the "donor" ship. It needs less than a mile range and can be collected for the samples and data in any port. Could also be a Hobo-like fed-ex.

The idea is to deploy this remotely onto a ship heading across a desired ocean. It is magnetically attached and forms a streamlined scab on the ship hull. Collects samples and chemical data at various stages in route. Once it makes the end port, either it is "called" to shore and picked up by an associate or circumnavigates with the donor ship back to "home".

So this could be used by the environmental organizations to collect data on vessels and the pollution that they think the vessels cause! Or even worse they could attach them to vessels (ie:whaling or fishing vessels that they love to protest and track them!)

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by BullSeal

Stumble, All good reasons to do it without it being known. The propulsion will double as a generator when in the flow of the "donor" ship. It needs less than a mile range and can be collected for the samples and data in any port. Could also be a Hobo-like fed-ex.

The idea is to deploy this remotely onto a ship heading across a desired ocean. It is magnetically attached and forms a streamlined scab on the ship hull. Collects samples and chemical data at various stages in route. Once it makes the end port, either it is "called" to shore and picked up by an associate or circumnavigates with the donor ship back to "home". We are looking into the ATT global cell service for data/location transmit with a device using the ship hull contact for best signal. Sonic ping seeking retrieval/insertion tracking is considered, but for now it will run semi-sub to the target donor ship following a cheap infrared beam and on-board snorkel mounted night cam, RC controlled with video goggles from shore based controller.

It may be released in route to gather deeper/wider data longer, picked up by passing sea lane traffic to continue.

I'll post some images of the model soon.

I am just seeing jail time in your future. If you want to risk it I guess its up to you, but given that you could probably very easily get permission to place these on a hull, and that the data would be the same, I can't imagine the justification for doing it your way.

And if these things broadcast from them (transducers, vhf, IR, ect..) they will be spoted eventually. Not to mention if your depth sounder interfears with the one on the ship (very possible), and it were to cause a ship wreck, loss of cargo, or loss of life, you would likely be in jail for a very very long time. Not to mention loose everything you ever owned or will own in civil lawsuits... So why again are you doing this?

[BullSeal]

Stumble, you are making my case for not asking. You cannot do anything nowadays without the specter of tremendous, horrific, insanely terrible ramifications. Depth sounder interference? really... I think you should direct your legal expertise and warnings at the whale interceptors trying to sink or get run-over blocking commercial whaling vessels. I wonder who they asked permission to stalk those crewed ships.

The drag of this is less than a weeks hull fouling. And your right about signal, which is why it may be retrieve recorder data only.

The goal is to have unbiased Ocean chemistry data and maybe even tracking of suspect vessels as DaGnome suggest. Its shaping up nicely with all off the shelf electrics, comm and controls, I'd be surprised if I am the first to think about it.