Norse-ish Longship

[Free Pirate]

Hey everyone, I've been sailing since I was a kid and have recently gotten interested in small craft design and construction. My friends and I have decided to try and build a boat something like a viking longship, but with a lateen sail rig. It must be able to hold seven people, be launched off the beach, and be built cheaply and generally simply. I've ordered Principles of Yacht Design by Lars Larsson & Rolf Eliasson, and am looking forward to learning from it, but I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas for a boat in the meantime. Anyone know how the Vikings built their traditional longboats? Everything's very flexible right now. We're going to at least attempt to use some pine trees on my friend's property as lumber, does anyone have information on cutting and drying wood for boat strip construction? Another problem we have is getting the boat watertight, and the wood rot-resistant. I'd be greatful for any information or advice.

[sharpii2]

Hi Free Pirate.

The viking 'longship' was primarilly a row boat. Its sail was mostly for strong winds and to assist the rowers in lighter winds. It was 'clinker' built which means that it was built of over lapping planks, much the way a clapboard house is. It was fairly narrow for its length (Beam/Length of 0.25 or less) and it has an almost perfect 'V' bottom which is rounded only at the sides. I would imagine that one of suitable size for you and your freinds would be in the order of 18 to 20ft long and 4.5 to 5ft wide and would have three sets of oars (the captain gets to steer) .

I can see real problems making this out of strip planking. The bigest one would be the wildly sweeping sheer. That would be hard to imitate with strip planking and it would be heavy too. Perhaps the keel, which sweeps up to become the bow post at one end and the stern post at the other, could be laminated. The staight grained, old growth, trees that the vikings used probably no longer exist.

Bob

[Raggi_Thor]

Why not use glued plywood lapstrake?

[yipster]

staight grained, old growth, trees that the vikings used probably no longer exist

on discovery channal i saw new build old style viking boats. the long grain is "klieved" not sawn; with an ax the carpenter follows the tree's grain lengtwise, and there was more info. maybe these builders or the program can be contacted.

[asathor]

The Danish Viking Ship museum in Roskilde has a lot of information on their website. They also have a substantial stash of papers that you may want to read. Their site is here: http://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/

Their newsletter in Danish from 2002 has some pictures from the recent construction of a replica ship using all period materials - In this particlar instance they don't have all the bugs out yet as they are learning what materials work where. http://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/fil...brev_nr_18.pdf

Another newletter show how the sails may be trimmed and gives a lot of otheri onformation. http://www.skoletjenesten.dk/materia...skuldelev1.pdf

God luck

Asathor

[Raggi_Thor]

Oppdal is a smal village not far from Trondheim, 300-500 above sea level, that is close to the "tree limit" here. Just a few years ago they started to cut trees the same way as the vikings did for shipbuilding and later on for making wooden nchurches (that still stands after 1000 years). The trees grow slowly in this climate.

[asathor]

We'll have to get up there and see that . My wife want´s a cabin overlooking the Fjords - I want to sail them - I have been suggesting that we could do both if she would come out and wave to me now and then.

So far we have to "make due" with Lake Superior where the trees grow too fast to develop the needed density.

Asathor

[Raggi_Thor]

If you understand norwegian, can you translate?

Først strippes treet for bark og kvister, kun en liten krone i toppen står igjen. Neste vinter hugges treet. Da har det sugd opp all "tyri" fra roten slik at treet er naturlig impregnert.

That was to many "special words" for my english. It's about stripping the tree one winter and then cut it the next winter after it has sucked up some "resin" from it's roots.

[yipster]

thanks for the museum site link above asathor!
i really enjoyed the movies explaning most everything in building vikingships

[asathor]

You got it Raggi_Thor .

I didn't have time to go through the museums paper for an English version and that one had the good pictures.

But its true, they used "cold-molded" trees full of sap . Only sailors would have the patience to wait a year to chop them .

Just think of all the fine old growth trees that the Lumber Barons clearcut in N. America - and now "he's" President.

Asathor

[Raggi_Thor]

Maybe we get a bit hung up in wood here, but not too long ago when a child was born, the parents went out and "ripped" approx 20 trees so that they would be suited for house building in 20 years time....

[Free Pirate]

Hey, thanks for the information. Northeast US is cold, but not that cold.
We don't have the resources, money, or skills to build a longship. I guess we underestimated the Norsemen of old.
That museum site is really informative, especially those movies.

I guess I ought to convince my friends that we should build something simpler.. anyone have any ideas? The specifications would be that it would need to be able to be launched from the beach, hold 6-7 people, be able to be sailed and rowed (with or without the sail being up). It would also have to be very stable & generally simple to build (although I don't mind if construction takes a long time). Would a catamaran be better than a monohull, since it has to carry 6-7 people?

[Raggi_Thor]

I don't think you want a catamaran :-)
If you want to work with traditional wood (not ply and epoxy) maybe some kind of cross planked flat bottom lapstrake topsides craft will work? It is much easier to build than a longship or faering, you can use rather cheap material, it will have high initial stability (which is what most people mean by "stable") and it will probably look good.

[Free Pirate]

I don't mind working with ply and epoxy, whatever's cheap-ish is fine. The pine trees we have might be really hard to build with and ply's not too expensive. There's a lumber supply store opening up really close to my house, but I don't know when they'll be open. Right now, the only plywood I can find that's any good for stitch-and-glue is 4x8 lauan, 5.2mm, 3-ply, knotless, "moisture resistant", for $11 at Home Depot. Everything else they have is pine with lots of knots. Is this lauan suitable for the hull?

Initial stability makes a boat rock less, and the other kind of stability make a boat harder to tip once it's already heeling, right? What's the other kind called?

Also, won't a flat bottom be worse than a V for beach launching?

[ChrisC30]

Well, for something able to hold about 7 persons, I'd suggest you research a little Viking marvel called the "faering".

The faering is a rowboat which was built in a surprisingly similar shape and design to the longship, but held less people, and could be fitted with a sail. Typically there was only room for 2 sets of oars on each side, so it's not the monster design project a longship would be, and at around 18 to 20 feet in length, it's easily more within your budget.

If you can't find a good resource on the web, email me. I've got a drawing that should give you the general idea of how a faering should look.


Good luck!