Non fossil fuel propulsion

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by Boston

Something like a 1% mix of acetone is supposed to increase mileage. Not sure though, I've never tried it, and its only for gasoline engines, not diesel.

tried that one 2 or 3 times and i could not find enough increase to measure. i had my hopes up to.

[Yellowjacket]

Adding some acetone to your fuel will improve the octane rating. IF you have a car that has a high compression ratio (requires premium fuel) it could improve your mileage by keeping the timing advanced all the way, but the amount of mileage gain is very small.

If you added acetone to a lower octane fuel it could get the octane rating up high enough that your engine management system didn't cut back the advance and it could save you a few pennies a fill up, but the acetone would have to be cheap and it usually isn't.

[Boston]

Its all over the energetics forums, but I'm not sure they've proven or disproven it yet. I'd say its a strong maybe, but until I personally try it and see that it works, I typically remain skeptical

http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t=DSCN0257.mp4

[whitepointer23]

i tried it in 2 cars and the boat, i just could not measure any gain at all. if your car already runs on premium i can't see what you would gain either.

[Boston]

ya I'm running diesel so I'll not likely be trying it any time soon. But nice to know its not worth it. I do plan on fracturing my own fuels one of these days so I can recycle tires and stuff. Get paid to take the tires and get paid for the fuel as well. Its kinda my evil plan of world domination, or at least till the tires run out

[whitepointer23]

you just reminded me boston. i mean't to tell you, the transport company i drive for has 60 mack and kenworth trucks and now about 90% of them are running on biodiesel. the boss sends 1 of our fuel tankers round all our depots delivering biodiesel he buys in melbourne cheaper than what he pays for normal diesel. so your dream of alt fuels is not as far fetched as what i thought. i did not even know we were using it until last week. our doubles are pulling 63 metric ton and have exactly the same power as they did before.

[Boston]

yup bio diesel has the same BTU's per gallon as diesel

so does the algae based bio diesel I keep on about

It really is the fuel of the near future and its carbon neutral, with the possibility of being slightly carbon negative. Which is desperately needed.

most people are just not aware that they'd never even notice a difference, they just hear bio diesel and figure its not as good for some reason. Its actually better because its so good at keeping the system clear of any built up deposits from decaying fuel. The alcohol base really kills off the bacterias

[WestVanHan]

Even if acetone did help, it is 5 to 6 x the price of gas.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Boston

small doesn't work out to well with fusion, go look up the Tokomak engine and look at how the efficiency increased with size. Works the same for all the nuclear type power systems.

I see what you mean. But in 1978 I did a presentation on the 8 bit microprocessor and 50 micron technology. It was predicted that we will see in every car and household appliance a processor. We also had a lot of eyebrows pulled up. Today it is sitting on 64 and 128 bit and sub microns, It totally depends on how much resources are put into any, future propulsion technology. But should it ever materialize. Croatia is smiling. They levy a tax on rainwater.
Bert

[portacruise]

Hi, Bert:

Yes, but we're waiting on development of above room temperature superconducting wire just to make the big tokamak work for even a second or so at this point....

Porta

Originally Posted by BertKu

I see what you mean. But in 1978 I did a presentation on the 8 bit microprocessor and 50 micron technology. It was predicted that we will see in every car and household appliance a processor. We also had a lot of eyebrows pulled up. Today it is sitting on 64 and 128 bit and sub microns, It totally depends on how much resources are put into any, future propulsion technology. But should it ever materialize. Croatia is smiling. They levy a tax on rainwater.
Bert

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by portacruise

Hi, Bert:

Yes, but we're waiting on development of above room temperature superconducting wire just to make the big tokamak work for even a second or so at this point....

Porta

Something more easier to put into production and the fuel is already widely available, is the liquid air patented engine. Every car can be converted, every refuelling station can be modified and the liquid air can be produced by means of electricity/nuclear power stations. Whether a large ship can easy store enough liquid air for a long voyage is to be seen. But If I was Rob, I would put it in a presentation for 2013. Most harbours would be able to re-fuel liquid air.
Bert

[Boston]

after having discussed it for about ten or so pages it would seem the general consensus is that its highly impractical. The engine itself might work OK but the logistics of it all are entirely out of the question. Why convert every existing engine when without conversion at all ( saving trillions of dollars ) we could be running on bio diesel ?

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Boston

after having discussed it for about ten or so pages it would seem the general consensus is that its highly impractical. The engine itself might work OK but the logistics of it all are entirely out of the question. Why convert every existing engine when without conversion at all ( saving trillions of dollars ) we could be running on bio diesel ?

Because there is already not enough food in the world, by shifting the playing ground, you will not have saved trillions of dollars, but shifted the problem. The prices of food have risen already substantially in the last 10 years. By a shortage of food, the prices of food will certainly not go down.
What have we gained? I quite like the idea, every country can make liquid air. Every harbour would be able to supply. When container business started, we had a few harbours who could handle container shipments. Today every harbour has an on/offload. Yes, the Oil companies will lose out, although they will still supply oil to the electricity PowerStation’s using oil. Bert

[Boston]

well if you read the thread you bump into the issues of algae based bio diesel, which produce about 20x greater yield than terrestrial based feed stocks, so the whole argument against bio diesel kinda goes right out the window.

Liquid air just isn't ever going to fly

why spend trillions developing and implementing a new technology when simply using a different liquid fuel that costs half what dino based diesel costs would pretty much fix our energy issues with no expenditure required of the consumer ???????

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by BertKu

Something more easier to put into production and the fuel is already widely available, is the liquid air patented engine. Every car can be converted, every refuelling station can be modified and the liquid air can be produced by means of electricity/nuclear power stations. Whether a large ship can easy store enough liquid air for a long voyage is to be seen. But If I was Rob, I would put it in a presentation for 2013. Most harbours would be able to re-fuel liquid air.
Bert

Under all circumstances the work required to liquify the air will always be more than the work obtained from the engine. That's a direct inescapable consequence of the laws of thermodynamics.

So the question of whether such an engine would be economical depends on the efficiencies of the liquifier and engine, as well as the costs of maintaining the thermally insulated liquid.

This last bit - keeping the 'air' cold (-256 degrees Fahrenheit.) seems to be the dealbreaker to me. I know how much a fridge costs to run.

http://www.dearmanengine.com/cms/201...om-liquid-air/


As for being "the latest new thing" :-

"Shiel did describe ships powered by liquid air engines, which could easily be handled by Adam Jeffson, the last man alive, on his travels around the empty planet. The coal powered steamships of the day required intensive backbreaking labor to shovel coal from shore side to ship board bins. Once refueled, steamships still required a black gang to stoke the fire and otherwise tend the boiler to maintain steam pressure to run the engine. On any ship capable of realistic ocean travel, as opposed to a small steam launch, such as depicted in The African Queen, steam power was simply not a one person operation. I always assumed Shiel had just made his liquid air engines up — created a black box — to solve the problem of how to get his character around the world unaided in the era of coal power.
But, I was wrong. There were numerous popular science articles about this wondrous new technology in 1899, the liquid air engine, based on the claimed discovery of a new process for producing liquid air at minimal cost. For instance, in the Review of Reviews, London, Vol 19, March 1899, at pp 244-245, appeared an abstract of an article from the March issue of McClure’s Magazine. It read in part:

Unlimited Power at Next to No Cost,.... Think of the
ocean greyhound unencumbered with coal bunkers,
and sweltering boilers, and smokestacks, making her
power as she sails, from the free sea air around her!

Shiel wrote The Purple Cloud in 1899-1900 when this sort of wonderful hype was in the news. At least as late as 1903 popular science writers were still speculating about how liquid air power might revolutionize the world, if the claims of the new method of cheaply producing liquid air, first announced in 1899, proved to be commercially feasible. "

http://alangullette.com/lit/shiel/es...ir_engines.htm