New type of Sailboat

[Ron Skelly]

I am working on a design of a new type sailboat with a few unique features.
I am looking for any advice on the best way to proceed.
1. Are there boat type engineers or software that will assist with the design?
2. Are there companies who will manufacture a prototype for me?
3. The initial version will be made out of injection moulded plastic - should I make the first one myself out of fiberglass?
4. Are there companies who will quote me budgetary volume prices for injection moulded boats?
Any advice, comments very much appreciated.
I am located in Wasaga Beach, Ontario, Canada

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by Ron Skelly

1. Are there boat type engineers or software that will assist with the design?
2. Are there companies who will manufacture a prototype for me?
3. The initial version will be made out of injection moulded plastic - should I make the first one myself out of fiberglass?
4. Are there companies who will quote me budgetary volume prices for injection moulded boats?

There are software tools (and some are also freeware) which can assist you in design, but the point is in the word "assist". They won't design the boat for you and are useless if the designer (in this case you) doesn't have an adequate training and experience. Maybe you do have it, but if you don't then it is much better ask for advice from NA's, engineers, boatbuilders and sailors. In other words, people with necessary knowledge, gained either through the formal education or through life lived in yards and on board. Otherwise you are risking a floating flop, and a pretty costly one.

There are plenty of valid persons on this forum, many of them professionally involved in boat design and building, and some others which are experienced sailors, so they all might give you a lots of good advices and indications, just ask the right questions. You are in the right place.

Any hint on principal dimensions/characteristics of the boat?

[Ron Skelly]

Thank you very much for your advice. I realize I am at the very starting point with all this. Preliminary dimensions are approximately 11 feet long by 5 1/2 feet wide. Boomless, roll-up type sail. Peddle back-up propeller possibly and/or optional electric motor. Initial version for cruising not for speed.

[alan white]

A prototype could be made from cedar strips and epoxy or molded from fiberglass and your choice of resins over a foam plug, in addition to several related variants, but definitely not injection molded.
Injection molding is how the finished product might be created cheaply in mass production. The roto mold is hideously expensive whereas the other methods mentioned are within the grasp of most backyard builders. I live near Old Town Canoe Co, and I once saw one of their roto molds at the metal scrap yard. It was a work of art, looking like a canoe sculpted out of stainless steel. I tried to imagine what it must have cost to build it. A hundred thousand dollars maybe.

[Ron Skelly]

thanks...what is a foam plug and how would I obtain one?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by alan white

Injection molding is how the finished product might be created cheaply in mass production. The roto mold is hideously expensive ..I once saw one of their roto molds at the metal scrap yard. It was a work of art, looking like a canoe sculpted out of stainless steel. I tried to imagine what it must have cost to build it. A hundred thousand dollars maybe.

And what do you think an Injection Mold looks like? In fact, Roto Molding uses a far lower tech mold than injection molding. The roto mold requires no clamping pressure, no water jackets, no ejection.

The clamping pressure for an injection mold for a boat 10' x 5.5' would be far more than the largest machine I have personally seen (2000 Ton). The molding machine for a part that size would have to be about the size of a 2 car garage, if not larger.

An injection mold for a hull like this would cost more than you could ever recoup by selling some 10 foot dinghy. Never mind the cost of the machine and/or the hourly rate to run parts.

Roto molded parts will be made of some sort of olefin (PE or PP), and those materials are not condusive to secondary bonding, so it is not a great solution for most sailboat designs.

Injection molding can use more structural materials like glass filled nylon, but even so it is not substantial compared to FRP.

[Ron Skelly]

what technique does a plastic type manufacturer of kayaks use..if it is not injection moulded what is the process..sorry for my ignorance here.

[alan white]

Originally Posted by Paul B

And what do you think an Injection Mold looks like? In fact, Roto Molding uses a far lower tech mold than injection molding. The roto mold requires no clamping pressure, no water jackets, no ejection.

The clamping pressure for an injection mold for a boat 10' x 5.5' would be far more than the largest machine I have personally seen (2000 Ton). The molding machine for a part that size would have to be about the size of a 2 car garage, if not larger.

An injection mold for a hull like this would cost more than you could ever recoup by selling some 10 foot dinghy. Never mind the cost of the machine and/or the hourly rate to run parts.

Roto molded parts will be made of some sort of olefin (PE or PP), and those materials are not condusive to secondary bonding, so it is not a great solution for most sailboat designs.

Injection molding can use more structural materials like glass filled nylon, but even so it is not substantial compared to FRP.

I'm sure you're right, Paul. You sure are amazingly smart.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by alan white

I'm sure you're right, Paul. You sure are amazingly smart.

Why yes, yes I am.