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  #1  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:14 AM
Vladimir Zenin Vladimir Zenin is offline
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A new concept for future boats.

It is impossible to compete with a propeller as a principal propulsion system for a watercraft. It improved more than 100 years. Its production is perfect to meet a claim of any consumer. It is impossible to obstruct this progress. But I believe there are ideas and inventions which will force slowly out the propeller. I see one of such ideas. This idea is suggested to us by Mother Nature. Most of the sea creatures use a travelling wave propulsion principle to swim in the water. I have already told about travelling wave propulsion effectiveness and gave an example of the travelling wave generator for a human-powered boat in my threads 8191 and 8257.
Now I want to discuss others aspects of the travelling wave propulsion. Would you like your boat could go in the water, swim and go out of the water itself? Would you like to go ‘boating’ on the beaches and roads? Would you like to overcome a marsh using your boat? You can do all of these things with a boat with a travelling wave propulsion. Just fancy a boat with a bottom made of a flexible material in which you can generate a travelling wave as it is shown on the picture. The flexible membrane AB is a waterproof support of the boat/marsh buggy. This boat includes a travelling wave generating apparatus for generating running waves in the membrane. The mechanical movement of the membrane moves everything (water, sand, snow and others) located in volume between crests in the opposite direction of the boat/marsh buggy movement. This transport can go there and everywhere.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2005, 04:56 AM
tamkvaitis tamkvaitis is offline
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Corect me if I am wring, but you want to create a huge snake. In theory it may move, but pracicly making hull of a sailboat which is flexible is very complicated. And what about ordinary sea wawes? will your concept work then the boat is roling?
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:14 AM
Deering Deering is offline
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How come most of the really whacky ideas on this list seem to come from Australians? I really gotta go visit that country!

Actually, this is an interesting idea. A few thoughts:

1. It seems to me that the flexibility of the membrane would need to vary based on the media it's traveling over. In water - more flexible - more ampitude; on pavement - quite rigid.

2. How long would such a membrane last?

3. Most of the sea critters that move by waves move really sloooow. Anything that clips along uses some sort of fin. Why would this concept be different?

4. Generating these traveling waves - bet the boat would be noisy as hell, and the whole thing would vibrate.
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:45 AM
Tim B Tim B is offline
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Using fish-like fins has been tried, very efficient, just prohibitively expensive because of the complexity.

For really useful propulsion we need something that sits in sea-water or air (or both) and keeps working, whenever.

Tim B.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2005, 09:01 PM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamkvaitis
Corect me if I am wring, but you want to create a huge snake. In theory it may move, but pracicly making hull of a sailboat which is flexible is very complicated. And what about ordinary sea wawes? will your concept work then the boat is roling?
I think you have to familiarize yourself with my threads:
1. Fishes and dolphins are powerful propellers,
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8191 and
2. How fast can we swim with a dolphin like propeller?,
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8257.
Fishes and dolphins don’t know a theory. They swim practically and use the travelling wave propulsion. Making part of the hull flexible is not very complicated. You know very well there are lots of boats made entirely of the flexible material. It is not my concept. It is a concept of the Mother Nature. It will work when the boat will rolling.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 09:44 PM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deering
How come most of the really whacky ideas on this list seem to come from Australians? I really gotta go visit that country!

Actually, this is an interesting idea. A few thoughts:

1. It seems to me that the flexibility of the membrane would need to vary based on the media it's traveling over. In water - more flexible - more ampitude; on pavement - quite rigid.

2. How long would such a membrane last?

3. Most of the sea critters that move by waves move really sloooow. Anything that clips along uses some sort of fin. Why would this concept be different?

4. Generating these traveling waves - bet the boat would be noisy as hell, and the whole thing would vibrate.
Thank you for the fair words. Welcome to Australia.
1. You are right about the flexibility.
2. Testing will answer your question.
3. Dolphins can swim about 75 km/h and some fishes can swim faster than 100 km/h. See my thread ‘How fast can we swim with a dolphin like propeller?’ http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8257.
4. The flexible membrane will oscillate with a frequency of a few periods per second. It will not create a nois.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 09:55 PM
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kach22i kach22i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir Zenin
Just fancy a boat with a bottom made of a flexible material in which you can generate a travelling wave as it is shown on the picture.
The idea of a wiggly worm boat is attractive somehow because I like different. However my experiences from owning a hovercraft tells me there will be lots of wear on the contact material (skirt on a hovercraft).

I suppose that if the contact material could be bio-based and heal/repair/regenerate itself there could be more than limited life to such a membrane contact material.

One alternate to an actual contact material which is prone to excessive wear might be electro-magnetic energy or plusating air curtain. Once again we are soon back to the hovercraft and leva-train model types.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 09:56 PM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim B
Using fish-like fins has been tried, very efficient, just prohibitively expensive because of the complexity.

For really useful propulsion we need something that sits in sea-water or air (or both) and keeps working, whenever.

Tim B.
I don't offer to use fish-like fins or tails. My idea is different (see my threads). My propulsion device sits in sea-water and keeps working.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 10:22 PM
Deering Deering is offline
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I was envisioning something more along the lines of jellyfish propulsion than a dolphin. But OK!
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 10:33 PM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i
The idea of a wiggly worm boat is attractive somehow because I like different.
The marsh buggy needs a bottom made of a flexible material. Usual boats or ships can have a flexible material on a surface of the submerged boards. They don’t need to have a flexible hull.
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2005, 03:16 AM
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kjell kjell is offline
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Are you using my technique of land propulsion?
Hydrurga leptonyx
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2005, 06:35 AM
trouty
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The reason

all the really whacky ideas come from downunder, is because we spend so much time upside down - all the blood runs to our heads!

I like this membrane idea - now combine it with plasmoidal induction And I reckon it might be a goer!

Cheers!
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:02 AM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjell
Are you using my technique of land propulsion?
Hydrurga leptonyx
Hi Kjell,
This creature uses a caterpillar propulsion (see picture).
My propulsion is different
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:13 AM
VladZenin VladZenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trouty
all the really whacky ideas come from downunder, is because we spend so much time upside down - all the blood runs to our heads!

Sharks & lawyers...is there any difference?

I like this membrane idea - now combine it with plasmoidal induction And I reckon it might be a goer!

Cheers!
Could you ask me something earnest please?
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:29 AM
masrapido masrapido is offline
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So, where's that device? You started the thread with an idea, not a device. And if by your own words at the start of the thread, propellers are impossible to improve on, what good is your (device?) idea?
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