New antifoul discovery - 100% effective AND green

[Boston]

if they can find a way to capture anti-mater
they can find a way to make a barnacle go away

[Dave Gudeman]

Originally Posted by Boston

the use of sonic deterrents by military, police and private security agancies is pretty clearly documented. The devices are developed and in use today. Its just a mater of time before someone does actually get it right for an anti-fouling agent.

The conclusion is not supported by the premise. Just because some creatures (such as humans) show avoidance reactions to certain sounds does not suggest that all creatures do. And if they do, it might be only for sounds that are so loud that they cost too much in energy to be practical or that they cause structural damage or that the intensity level becomes painful for people.

Originally Posted by Boston

Yes there may be a bunch of quacks involved at the moment but that doesnt mean much. Hell they laughed at the guy who invented toilet paper, not only that but also the guy who invented the toilet

I doubt that either is true. In my experience, unsourced anecdotes about inventors who suffered scorn and ridicule from their peers and then were vindicated by history are mostly either exaggerated or entirely fabricated. Especially when those unsourced anecdotes come from someone who believes in decades-long conspiracies of corporate heavies, government agents and hundreds of university academics.

[masalai]

guy who invented the toilet - - some Greek or Indian about 5000 years ago... - - 3250BC in the Indus Valley Civilisation (The origins of the Tamil Civilisation)... Prof Mathivanan...)

[Boston]

I doubt that either is true. In my experience, unsourced anecdotes about inventors who suffered scorn and ridicule from their peers and then were vindicated by history are mostly either exaggerated or entirely fabricated. Especially when those unsourced anecdotes come from someone who believes in decades-long conspiracies of corporate heavies, government agents and hundreds of university academics.

a brief history of crap ( with references )

In his book The Culture of the Abdomen published in 1924, Dr William Welles quoted leading medical authorities of the time who were very outspoken about the toilet's faulty design and ensuing health consequences.

This was what he wrote: "It would have been better if the contraption had killed its inventor before he launched it under humanity's buttocks."

Constipation, hernias, varicose veins, haemorrhoids and appendicitis were also attributed to the use of the toilet.

A solution to the dilemma was offered in the form of a footstool used to elevate the feet to the approximate squatting posture. At one point, the footstool was so popular it was being sold at Harrod's of London.

Sources:

1) Ross Horne, 'History of The Pedestal Toilet'

2) William Welles, DC, 'The Importance of Squatting', Natural Health Society Journal, Penrith NSW

now must I really go and detail the historical acceptance or lack thereof of moving the "outhouse" indoors

come from someone who believes in decades-long conspiracies of corporate heavies, government agents and hundreds of university academics.

if anyone's interested in unsupported undocumented fabrications please read the above quote

[Dave Gudeman]

That does not support your statement. The person who invented the toilet was long dead and no longer around to be scorned and ridiculed in 1924. Furthermore, we don't know what these "leading medical authorities" actually said or exactly what they were criticizing. All you have given us is a second-hand account of some doctor who once (long after the toilet was accepted technology) worried about the health effects of the toilet and made some inflammatory remarks aimed at the anonymous inventor.

If the only think you meant by your remarks was to pick out two random technologies and say that someone at some time has criticized that technology, then this can hardly be disputed (or interesting). There is no human practice at all that someone at some time has not criticized.

Originally Posted by Boston

if anyone's interested in unsupported undocumented fabrications please read the above quote

You are right. I was confusing you with Mr. Frosty. I apologize for the error.

[Frosty]

David ,--can I suggest that when you say "you' then it becomes open. No one knows for sure who you mean. It is better if you use the quote facility then we know what you are talking about.

Your input is valued and accuracy is all important as you seem to be upset at others inaccuracy.

This forum is basically a bunch of boating guys, some threads are tongue in cheek, im sure that soon you will recognize them as what they are.

Some member demand staunch faced accuracy in the briefest possible form. You will soon recognize those too after a while.

However you look at it no one here should be stood against the wall for inaccuracies as you seem to expect.

A little clue would have been that the conversation was about a toilet.

[Dave Gudeman]

Sorry, Frosty, I'm not usually humor-impaired, but I don't know you and there are a number of people on this forum who seem to be serious cranks.

I don't, by the way, automatically classify someone who has hopes for untra-sonic pest control as a crank. The evidence is against it, but the idea is not as outlandish as, for example, perpetual motion.

I do, however, have something of a pet peeve about cranks making up stories about historic geniuses being scorned. The implication, of course, is that the crank in question is a new Edison or Einstein. It is not only the casualness with truth that annoys me, it is the hubris.

The only person I've ever known in that category is myself.

[troy2000]

As a hardcore gun owner and collector, I used to believe gun forums were populated by the most opinionated and stubborn people on the internet. But I'd have to say I owe them an apology. Since I started wandering around this place, I've decided gun nuts are just amateurs....for really hardheaded and opinionated people, you just can't beat boat owners, designers and builders.

I'm not complaining; I happen to enjoy the give-and-take I've found all over boatdesign.net. It's an incredible learning experience. As someone else commented, sometimes I feel like I'm under the table, listening to the grownups talk.

[Boston]

Dave your going to be sorely disappointed if your expecting folks to be all that serious all the time in this thing.

one thing you had no way of knowing is that your talking to the inventor of "teem" toilet paper

ya go ahead and just picture that for a minute

maybe while you go check on the sources previously mentioned ( my most humble apologies if they were not up to standard as "first" sources )

what team toilet paper is was an attempt to get the various football leagues to authorize there logos for use on toilet paper.
that way you could throw it at the game when your team won or scored or whatever or wipe your ass with your favorite team
whatever suet's your fancy I guess just as long as you paid a premium for it is all I cared about
can you imagine what the Superbowl would look like if they sold that stuff at the games
the foot ball leagues refused to authorize it ( at least for me ) saying it would be thrown at the field of play
bought ten years after that and someone payed them enough to convince them otherwise. Although they dont allow the stuff in the stadium.
one more good idea down the drain so to speak

thing is I got a pretty good grip on history and in this country at least things like sears roebuck catalog were the accepted norm in TP for so long the idea of buying paper specifically and only to throw away was not all that well accepted at first.

if you want each and every little thing documented
go to the global warming page and be prepared to loose your mind
and be continually ridiculed and randomly insulted for exposing the agnotism
now thats a travesty of misinformation and industry lies if there ever was one
oh by the way
they have some industry reps over there that will fill you so full of **** your eyeballs will be floating
enjoy
if your on the side of reason science and sanity your in for a treat
if your on the side of the energy industry your going to be singing Kumbaya in no time
either way the level of documentation, presentations of detrended graphs as being visual representatives without noting there detrended nature, use of industry generated phony science and endless quotes from industry Pr firm publications. should amuse you no end.
I sertainly got a good laugh out of it.

[masalai]

Hey Boston you forgot "Global economics... WTF, and you also pass judgement there and not a word of promotion, go stand in the corner and sing 3 verses (UNDER YOUR BREATH) of Kumbaya in ancient Latin...

Who changed the topic to toilets? - I have a little "porta-potti" for sale.... - just slightly used...

Apart from picking my nose and complaining about your spelling and failure to promote the "best" threads, a nice and welcoming post - pat yourself on the back Boston

See I did say the tone and mood has changed to one that is more conciliatory and open to others views... and I maintain that I was correct (for a change)

[Boston]

sorry I was on the "crapper"

change the subject
nah
we were after all talking about anti-foul weren't we

besides Im pretty sure some folks in here are clearly doing there thinkin while firmly planted on the Lou anyway

the invention thats just waiting to hit the market is the black water holding tank breeder gas production anti-fouling bubble release system. ( just thought of it actually ) takes a methane producing bacteria and seeds the holding tank with it then has a preasure release valve that bubbles excess gas under the hull, my bet is that pelagic barnacles dont like methane

what do you think
should I move the idea over to the economics page and see about promotin it round the world

ps
something tells me we would have the bar tender laughing her ass off should we ever actually meet up for a few pints

[masalai]

seems like a good idea...

[Frosty]

Teflon-- the non stick coating that frying pans use!!! its not my idea its been tried put they cant make a paint apparently.

I understand teflon has to be applied with some heat treatment involved, hardly suitable then!!

Copper bot- copper coat what ever they call it now after numerous bankruptcies and name swops still remains the best from my experience of seeing all kinds of anti fouling in a marina environment.

Trouble is in my opinion it is basically copper powder mixed into an epoxy binder/ carrier. This brings a new meaning to hard anti foul.

Personally I use an ablative over a hard and of different colours, a tip I was given by hardy sailors and it is a wonderful idea.

A couple of coats of hard red followed by ablative black. The just top up the black. I also add about 5% of TBT into the paint as well. if you go more than 10% it gets glutinous and the roller wont roll it just slides until it gets tacky and then you dont get a good finish, so 5% is tops

This is of course on top of a good multi layer series of appropriate primers of the manufacturer of you choice. All are good as long as you stick to one manufacture all the way. Hempel Jotun etc etc.

Booked to haul in a Thailand ship yard mid January, 2,5 year since last haul.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by gerard baladi

Out of curiosity and some interest, I tried contacting them twice through their website for info and pricing, They did not bother to reply.

Here is one promoter who did reply to a request to explain their anti-fouling product:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...tml#post313704

[pamarine]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Teflon-- the non stick coating that frying pans use!!! its not my idea its been tried put they cant make a paint apparently.

I understand teflon has to be applied with some heat treatment involved, hardly suitable then!!

Copper bot- copper coat what ever they call it now after numerous bankruptcies and name swops still remains the best from my experience of seeing all kinds of anti fouling in a marina environment.

Trouble is in my opinion it is basically copper powder mixed into an epoxy binder/ carrier. This brings a new meaning to hard anti foul.

Personally I use an ablative over a hard and of different colours, a tip I was given by hardy sailors and it is a wonderful idea.

A couple of coats of hard red followed by ablative black. The just top up the black. I also add about 5% of TBT into the paint as well. if you go more than 10% it gets glutinous and the roller wont roll it just slides until it gets tacky and then you dont get a good finish, so 5% is tops

This is of course on top of a good multi layer series of appropriate primers of the manufacturer of you choice. All are good as long as you stick to one manufacture all the way. Hempel Jotun etc etc.

Booked to haul in a Thailand ship yard mid January, 2,5 year since last haul.

Interlux makes a couple of PTFE coatings.

TBT is illegal in several countries, and will probably continue to show up in new-clean water laws elsewhere. So while it is a better anti-foul than copper, for many of us it's not an option.