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  #91  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:16 PM
apex1
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Search for the cheapest epoxy resin you can get, we are fine with that.
Search for ANY glass fabric or roving of any weight, we are fine with that.
Search for the mulberry, we can use it.

The glass they used on the cheap boats is just mat. That gives some abrasion resistance, that was it. We will use some mat too, but only for a better bond between glass layers if we need several layers. (which I would like to avoid)

Some sorts of palm trees make a sufficient timber as well!

Regards
Richard
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  #92  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:42 PM
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Roger so ....

Frame Mulberry - Check.
Glass (as per pictures) - Check (will also see if they have other weights or types)
Epoxy - Still getting details as they dont use. Ill probably buy it and take it there for them to use.
Planks is white wood as mentioned ..... at the yard with the fiber glassing ....

Good stuff !!!
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  #93  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:55 PM
apex1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulkyn View Post
Roger so ....

Frame Mulberry - Check.
Glass (as per pictures) - Check (will also see if they have other weights or types)
Epoxy - Still getting details as they dont use. Ill probably buy it and take it there for them to use.
Planks is white wood as mentioned ..... at the yard with the fiber glassing ....

Good stuff !!!
No!!!!!

Not "glass as per pictures" thats crap! We cannot use mat as they do, we need some fabric or roving as mentioned.

Not "white wood" if we can avoid it! A thinner plank of Mulberry sheethed with glass fabric is much stronger than that white **** full of voids!
And if the white stuff really is imported from US (hard to believe), the Mulberry should be cheaper, being a "local" wood (it comes from Sudan).

Regards
Richard
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  #94  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:04 PM
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Ahhh right .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
And if the white stuff really is imported from US (hard to believe), the Mulberry should be cheaper, being a "local" wood (it comes from Sudan)
Thats' not the one from the pictures .... that the other yard. The white wood in the picture is as i mentioned of much lower quality and is imported from some where else (dont know where from yet they get it in Egypt from a trader)

I will look around for fabric or roving glass then as well as epoxy.

How thick should the Mulberry be in your opinion?
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  #95  
Old 06-29-2010, 03:35 AM
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Just a quick update.

I called the yard and asked them if they have woven or cloth fiberglass. They will contact their supplier on pricing and get back to me.
The reason they use mat is because polyester raisin doesn't stick well with other fiber types (Cloth and woven). The person responsible on buying and applying fiber
already knows abuot epoxy and said it will give a stronger lasting boat, but they have no access to it. (ill have to buy some and take to the yard for the trial).

They are skeptical in regards to using epoxy on Mulberry wood, so i told them we will do some samples with Woven / cloth, epoxy and apply it to Mulberry 1.5 cm planks (1 cm in their opionion is weak and bends too much).
They will cut the wood at 3cm's and leave it to dry first then cut to 1.5 cm and do the trial.
However they told me cost wise, the white wood used will almost be the same price Mulberry wood!

The Mulberry wood grows in Egypt and the White wood they use is either Russian or from Finland. Polyester used is Taiwanese and the Fiberglass is produced locally in Egypt.

On the bright side they seem very willing to cooperate and are eager to learn new ways and get a better product, this will help in doing tests and hopefuly getting a much better quality boat.
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  #96  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:53 AM
apex1
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The reason they use mat is because polyester raisin doesn't stick well

...what I say.


They are skeptical in regards to using epoxy on Mulberry wood,

no worry, it WILL stick perfectly!


so i told them we will do some samples with Woven / cloth, epoxy and apply it to Mulberry 1.5 cm planks (1 cm in their opionion is weak and bends too much).

1 cm is not enough, they are right. 2 x 12,5 mm is about the size I have in mind.

The Mulberry wood grows in Egypt

... what I say, local wood!


and the White wood they use is either Russian or from Finland.

..my bet, Russian Fir.


On the bright side they seem very willing to cooperate and are eager to learn new ways and get a better product, this will help in doing tests and hopefuly getting a much better quality boat.
You are on the right track now!

Regards
Richard
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  #97  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:51 AM
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XD your bashing was helpful apex ! Thanks mate

"A friend is some one who tells you the truth even if it makes you cry. An enemy is some one who makes you happy when he is telling lies"
An old Egyptian quote ....

I do have a question though, why are planks some times pre-painted ? And how does that effect applying fiber glass?
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  #98  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:00 AM
apex1
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The planks are encapsulated (painted) prior to construction, in neat epoxy to avoid any chance of water intrusion. After planking is finished, the hull is sanded, faired and then the glass applied. It does not effect glassing when done this way. (the opposite)
Just paint would be a different issue. I assume that is the poor mans method?

Regards
Richard
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  #99  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:40 AM
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I was with a fiberglass technician yesterday and he said that fiber over wood needs to be done this way. Didn't register with me why it must be done as i thought it was an option so to speak.

Is that something worth considering? or is it for more advanced techniques / bigger sizes?

So i needed some info regarding the matter.
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  #100  
Old 07-01-2010, 05:42 AM
apex1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulkyn View Post
On the bright side they seem very willing to cooperate and are eager to learn new ways and get a better product, this will help in doing tests and hopefuly getting a much better quality boat.
To get a idea about the whole drama you might find these informations / tutorials helpful:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

http://www.newfound.com/

on the latter site download the "construction notes".
That principle is more or less what I have in mind.

And, NO it is not "advanced" technology and it is NOT for bigger vessels only, as you will see.

Regards
Richard
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  #101  
Old 07-01-2010, 10:49 AM
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Fantastic link Apex cheers mate !!!!
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  #102  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:27 AM
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Couple of quickies ()

Henkel have a very wide variety of materials, did any one use them? They are available in Egypt. This would solve finding the proper materials for the boat (epoxy, thread sealing, etc...)

I am currently searching for an epoxy solution that has a long curing time (since summer temperatures are between 35 to 45 degrees).

I was also wondering does Mulberry wood need any additional preparation?
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  #103  
Old 07-02-2010, 05:44 AM
apex1
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I guess ALL boatbuilders in the world use one or the other Henkel product sooner or later. (Loctite for example)

But I am not aware of a Henkel Epoxy resin (apart from the fact, that Loctite is epoxy based)

The tropical hardener should be the standard on the market in Egypt. And of course one can find a solution with a long pot life.

Mulberry needs no preparation (only Teak and some Oakwoods need a special formulation of resin / hardener. talking common timber)
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  #104  
Old 07-02-2010, 07:59 AM
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The thing is when in doubt i always try to minimize variables. As such i would rather work with a well known brand (like west wood or something you recommend) then to work with a local brand which is unknown.
I am still looking for a good epoxy but so far i had so many different views (since people either do no apply it as intended or use the wrong fiber types etc..).

I want to have the epoxy sample ready by the time i visit the yard so i can start the mulberry / fiber trial So west wood solutions then?
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  #105  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:23 PM
apex1
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The resin you mean is most probably "West Systems" (Westwood is a lesbian fashion designer).

We are fine with the local stuff as I said before! There is absolutely no need to invest 5 times the money in imported Epoxy. The boat is neither high tech, nor will it be a multimillion value. Every one of the "local" resins I came across by so far have been at least sufficient for such job, the one you have there will be as well. More important is to HAVE epoxy instead of esthers.

Regards
Richard
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