My new baby! 6.8 Meter fiber over wood fishing boat !

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Vulkyn, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Unfortunately yes ..... looks like my German is as good as my fishing skills ...

    I got a double planked wood 6 meter boat for $5300 for boat ONLY. Not including, paint, addons or even engine .... so ... eeep....

    Im visiting another yard tomorrow though .... im gona get fired but im getting my boat build even if it costs me my job ...

    Sorry Fanie i dont understand your post (my lack of knowledge) .... can you clarify it for a noob ?

    Another problem in Egypt is the so called experts do a very LOUSY job ... taking my car to the service center means i pay a LOT of money and get truly crap service.... which is why in a lot of situations its better to go to a mechanic and moniter what he is doing at least that way i know what they are doing and can adapt accordingly.

    This means where ever i will build the boat i will have to understand a lot and be involved in all steps (and i must really understand what to do).
    In many cases, opting to go with a traditional yard who are willing to "listen" to your standards will yield a much better result than the so called experts (in Egypt that is ...)
     
  2. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    A friend was kind enough to export the Shoteya to CAD. The lines are not 100% correct (specially the aft section, the Shoteya is straight this one is angled)

    Still a step forward i guess ..
     

    Attached Files:

  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    That one in .dxf makes your day.........
     
  4. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Would the fiber glass add the needed strength? If yes then how many layers would be sufficient?

    So your opinion is that the fiber glass idea is a disaster waiting to happen? Or is the concept sound but i need a better build?

    Based on your opinion i will take different paths, keeping in mind the double planked is 6 times more expansive (yet you where unhappy with the quality as well.)
    I do not mind building a boat that is a little less robust and have a good idea about its limitations.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Why would a double planking be 6 times more expensive?

    But we are at the details again.
    We have to start with the basics.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Im missing mahogany prices and epoxy, I'm going to get the missing prices hopefully by today....

    That's the conventional method so to speak and you are right.
    This method is the $5300 price tag i got for a 6 meter boat (which is too high .... its the same yard im visiting to understand how exactly are they quoting me, they are using mulberry / blueberry wood and double planking it i.e 2 layers but not sure the binding method used).

    How can i measure that? And by framing you mean the ribs, and the outer wood holding the boat together? Including the cross beams ... ?

    The Shoteyaa they are using mulberry / blueberry wood for the ribs and white wood for planks.
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If they use the Mulberry from Sudan (which I assume) "Morus mesozygia" or Difou, we do´t need Mahogany!
    Find out how much more this Mulberry stuff costs than the "white wood". We probably can use it for the entire boat!

    The "ribs" as you name them are corrctly called "frames", and we have to make them stronger as they do now.

    We will come out were we want to, be patient.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  8. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    I forgot to mention that the yard do not use Mulberry because (from their experience) fiber glass does not bond and separates from the wood.
    I am sure its something to do with their technique or material used.
    They also said it takes a very long time to dry and is very difficult to work with (due to its strength its difficult to bend).
    I am getting details on the epoxy resin they use as well ....

    Just a correction to the above post, the wood used for the frame is Mulberry and for the outside planks is Swedish White wood imported from USA. ( I know i am confused too ....) This is for the 5300$ double planking quote i got in Alexandria, not the Shoteya (which also used white wood but seems thinner and imported from a different country and lower grade.)

    Si senior .....

    Thanks to capt Jack for helping me set up the web hosting !! You are a star sir ! Linking and uploading will be done soonish i hope.
     
  9. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Plywood is called Ablakash in Arabic. I was amazed to find out since the only use i have seen for it is filling large areas with very thin plywood in furniture (like wardrobes).

    No one uses it in Egypt (as far as i know after calling some people and searching the web) which means, there is no Marine plywood either! Couldn't find normal plywood for boats even ...
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Epoxy bonds with every wood we can use here. So lets find out how much the mulberry is! Thin planks of Mulberry bend better than thick planks of Balsa.
    We CAN use it.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    I don't mean to go against Richard's advice here in any way ok. He's a pro and I'm not. Since he hasn't posted the 'CRAP' comment... :D

    What I suggested was if you cannot find decent wood then instead of using the problem wood, make the required parts from a cheap wood and use it as a mould, only for making the parts from polyester resin instead. Each part has to be made as a one piece and in a single session, ie when you start you finish a part.

    When the glass is cured, you remove it from the wood and you have a part only. The wood can be used to make the next part if more of the same is required.

    You don't fiberglass the parts in place, instead you glue them (unless the fiberglassed area is captive so it cannot delaminate). Polyester doesn't even bond well to polyester once cured, so imo the best way would be to make ample surfaces on each part for bonding the parts. See post #75.

    BTW, I haven't tested the Dow Corning on wood, only fiberglass to fiberglass and fiberglass to the PE foam I plan to use. The bonds are super, even severe abuse shows no sign of coming loose or breaking. There is some flex though, which is expected. I applied >200kg on a 100 x 100mm area glass on glass to twist and pry the joint open. It held good despite the glass on both sides bending quite a bit.

    It's outside in the sun and elements currently. Will do the same test in a month or so to see if it's kept it's integrity, it's been there for about 5 months already. I always test everything before assuming it will work.
     
  12. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Fanie Fanie

    Just for interest sake if any one else is interested -

    I have a piece of white PE foam outside bearing the conditions currently. Besides the cats sharpening their nails in it it still looks good. I see some ants also moved in under it, but that's fine, lets see what gives.

    I plan to use this foam inside my hulls for insulation, flotation and it has a pleasant surface feel to walk on. It's main purpose is flotation though. I won't build anything without permanent flotation.
     
  13. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Yep i am waiting for a quote from the yard, they tried to talk me out of it but i told them i need the cost regardless of the problems they might face in building!

    And yes they don't use epoxy (its expensive!), he is getting me the polyester resin details (just so i know).

    The other yard said its a very bad idea to cover the wood with any epoxy or fiber glass because it "Literately" suffocates the wood and will make it root (how on earth will it root if its dried well then completely sealed off is beyond me).

    ROFL !

    Fanie, i read some guides regarding fiber glass application method you mentioned. As apex said, the resigns used (and probably the glass tape as well) are cheap low quality material.
    The idea seems sound but it will be worse with the current materials and the way they apply it.
    This will also mean training the to apply a new technique for them .... (which i am not well versed in, the blind leading the blind !)

    I will however buy some fiber glassing tools and make some samples for myself using some of the guides i read as to gain more knowledge ..... now to find a place where i can work with away from the wife (she doesn't like me experimenting and making a mess !)
     
  14. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    If you have a choice - and want to try it then I only use Cray Valley's resins.
    I played with some glass tape before, and it's rubbish. Use proper woven roving, You could try 200g, 450 and say 700 or 900 gr/m, should give you an idea.

    Try playing with some peel ply as well, you put it on the wet glass and peel off afterwards. Just makes smoothing a few 100 % easier.
     

  15. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Problem will be getting the material in Egypt .... we don't have hardware stores (like do it yourself). So its gona be challenging finding the higher quality materials ...

    Time to dust off my yellow pages ...
     
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