My Impossible mission

[D.I.M.1]

Anyway, I think the topic of Nuclear power is getting a little toxic for discussion, so if you guys want to talk about it first give some other useful information and then post whatever arguments.
So what is HHO?
Please.
DIM

[Knut Sand]

This is probably a bit too small for your intended use, but could a "Fantail" launch with a sterling engine work? (Was Apex that mentioned sterling earlier here i believe?)...

The "roof" often found on these long, slender/ narrow hulls could be the heater; black matte thin hollow aluminium profile, liquid filled, a Solar panel, giving electricity for a el. pump heating the warm cylinder and a similar pump cooling the cold cylinder? The engine running on the temperature difference?

?

I mean, in the summer we have solar energy equivalent to 150 W/m2 here (Norway), some other places have more than 300 W/m2...?

A panel sized of approx 1,7 x 6 m would receive 10,2 x 150W = 1520 (approx 2 hp)...

Problem with reaching planing speed....

And the (el)solar panel could charge a battery, so that you'll have an alternative method of transport for those rainy days...

Boat example here?: http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodi...number=400-092

[D.I.M.1]

Question: How much volume is allotted to a fuel tank in a yacht estimate~ 30'-50'?

Th-th-th-thats all folks! Not really I'll be asking more questions.
-DIM

[pamarine]

Originally Posted by D.I.M.1

Question: How much volume is allotted to a fuel tank in a yacht estimate~ 30'-50'?

Th-th-th-thats all folks! Not really I'll be asking more questions.
-DIM

depends on desired range/endurance and powerplant

[D.I.M.1]

Say a trawler to a privately owned fishing boat.

Also, the idea is that a giant battery will serve as the replacement for the fuel tank so minus the volume of the tank how big of a battery could I fit?

___________________
Praise God I found an adviser
____________________________

[Knut Sand]

Quite a lot..... about the amount of batteries in a non-nuke submarine.... ?

To buy; a lot of expence
To mainatain; a lot of expense
To replace every 4-6 year; a lot of expence....

Sail, and a small diesel engine seem to be a solution.... still...

[D.I.M.1]

...the goal is to try to eliminate or reduce diesel usage in yachts, yet still maintain the reliability and functions of current diesel yachts.

[cameron.d.mm]

When thinking about batteries, in regards to replacing fossil fuel, the most important thing to consider is energy density. That is, the amount of energy that the 'fuel' (either diesel or battery) can store in a given volume. Try comparing the value for the type of battery you have chosen, to the value of liquid diesel. The difference will be significant (the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that rivals the energy density of fossil fuels (and bio-fuels) is nuclear, although I am sure there are others). The energy density of fossil fuels is so high, that even when the relative inefficiency of the internal combustion engine is compared to the excellent efficiency of an electric motor, the liquid fuel wins.

The other problems are related to the speed at which energy can be put into the system, and taken out of it. Fuel tanks are easy to fill, and fuel is easy to pump (got a bigger engine, use a bigger pipe). However, batteries have limits as to how much energy they can absorb or release during a certain period if time. What is more, the faster energy is drawn from a battery, the less of the total energy stored in the battery you will be able to use. This, coupled with the fact that draining batteries fully is harmful to their longevity (lead acid batteries should never go over ~75% depth of discharge), further limits the usable energy density of batteries.

I know your ideas are being met with some skepticism on this board, but please understand that many of us would love to see you come up with an alternative. Personally, I am in the midst of converting my car to electric drive. However, I am doing so with the knowledge that my range will be severely limited compared to when the car ran on gas (petrol). I also acknowledge that as it stands, no number of solar cells or other energy recovery devices in existence can hope to make up the drain driving around puts on the batteries. This isn't a problem for me, but I imagine it is for you given your stated goal of a 'work' boat.

But, keep on truck'n.

[D.I.M.1]

My project's scope isn't just to create a green boat, I redefined my goals, so its like this to introduce renewable energy generation to either reduce or eliminate the amount of energy needed to power a vessel, to the highest level without compromising the effectiveness of the vessel's function.

[catalyst]

Originally Posted by D.I.M.1

My project's scope isn't just to create a green boat, I redefined my goals, so its like this to introduce renewable energy generation to either reduce or eliminate the amount of energy needed to power a vessel, to the highest level without compromising the effectiveness of the vessel's function.

Hi

That would be perfect for HHO. We ran a small home made system in our works transit van. Consisted of basically a cylinder with many smaller cylinders inside it to act as the plates, filled with water, wired to the van battery. When a current passes through the water, Hydrogen is produced. This is then fed by a simple pipe straight into the air cleaner of the engine via a hose fitting. The engine then takes the Hydrogen in with the combustion air, and because the Hydrogen has calorific value, less Diesel is needed to create the same power as before. This equates to less pedal pressure for the same speed which reduces fuel consumtion. We were saving about 10-15% on what was a very basic set up.
Have a look on U-Tube. Search HHO.
We are currently working on a slightly larger unit for use on boats. Should retail at about £500 when complete. All stainless and minimal maintenance.

Regards
Bob

[apex1]

Originally Posted by catalyst

Hi
All stainless and minimal maintenance.

Regards
Bob

May I add: and all worthless for the given application! We ave had all these premature claims several dozen times here, snakeoil was the most polite comment to describe the cr@p. HHO is just another "battery" to store energy, nothing else.
And there is definetively NO WAY to replace a diesel engine on board a seagoing vessel. So easy is it.................and so disappointing.

[Scott Carter]

OK, I got it. All this talk about free electricity points squarely at static electricity. According to my calculations a medium sized hull of around 27' LOA, with a beam of 32.68 feet, displacement of 37 tons (in salt water) and speed/length ratio of 5 needs to beat its wings 43 times every second in order to maintain air speed velocity. Am I right?
So, all you gotta do is have a much bigger boat in front of your static electricity driven boat which is completley filled with hair. Or, to eliminate the need for this second boat anyway (which makes the whole exercise silly) just have as many people as possible with frizzy hair at your desired destination. While human hair works, according to my research, arachnid hair possesses the highest capacity for static electric charge (because of it's negative ionic balance and pH conditioning). So have them bring spiders if possible. Then, on your green boat, 99 red balloons. It may be necessary, depending on the distance required to travel, to have intermediate "refueling" stations, which could simply be big patches of shag carpet. I hear it floats.
Best of luck. Let me know if you'd like copies of my calculations.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by catalyst

We were saving about 10-15% on what was a very basic set up.
Have a look on U-Tube. Search HHO.
We are currently working on a slightly larger unit for use on boats. Should retail at about £500 when complete. All stainless and minimal maintenance.

Regards
Bob

Ok - so you have disproved about 4 major Physics principles ???

I think not!

The amount of power used to re-charge the battery is more than the amount of energy the Hydrogen can produce. With the added weight of the extra gear, your fuel consumption would be more than it was before.

I not - I have a million dollar cheque to buy the rights to your system!

[portacruise]

If you only have to go in one direction, how about free gravity power? Harness river flow where it is generous and swift to float a barge down a river? Only paddles or poles needed for manuvering.

As for nuclear, why does everyone overlook the obvious? Is there any such thing as a way to SAFELY and ENVIRONMENTALLY DISASSEMBLE a nuclear reactor, land or sea? Where's the manual? Just wait until France has to amortize the cost of decomissioning their breeders which will have some parts needing to be isolated and watched for a million year radioactive half lives. Right now nuclear seems economical because everything is being stored on site or otherwise being ignored as I understand...

Porta




[quote=apex1;305693]

Originally Posted by Petros

Have you all forgotten (or did´nt ever know) the "Savannah" and "Otto Hahn" ? Small freighters by todays standards, very successful in terms of fuel economy. The absolute desaster in every other aspect.



Thats not the point, you need qualified personnel anyway to operate these units safely!


Thats right! They can destroy half a country! Tchernobyl is just 25 years ago. More than half of Europe was heavily polluted. All forgotten?


But not in ships any longer!

[pamarine]

Originally Posted by rwatson

Ok - so you have disproved about 4 major Physics principles ???

I think not!

The amount of power used to re-charge the battery is more than the amount of energy the Hydrogen can produce. With the added weight of the extra gear, your fuel consumption would be more than it was before.

I not - I have a million dollar cheque to buy the rights to your system!

Not to hijack the thread, but what principles is he disproving?