Motor Sailers by Philip Rhodes & John Alden

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Not exactly a Rhodes or Aden design, but certainly one that captures an adventurous spirit.

[/i]

Well, neither Rhodes nor Alden, right!
And neither Greek nor good, as right.

This is a typical Turkish "Gulet" style "Motorsailer", performing as poor under sail as under motor. Just maximum accommodation is the task for the designer. Almost all of these boats are pretty poorly crafted (even if best timber is used) and you can find them all the Turkish and Greek coast up and down for a few bucks.
They are good, though, for the intended use: bay hopping in mostly sheltered water as floating barbeque platforms.

Regards
Richard

[bhull26]

Hello all, I am a relative of Arthur Stoner who commissioned the two Virginia Reels. Does anyone know if they are still in existence?
I am too young to have seen them before Arthur died, but my family has a scale model of the second and I believe, some documentation left with the model.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by bhull26

Hello all, I am a relative of Arthur Stoner who commissioned the two Virginia Reels. Does anyone know if they are still in existence?
I am too young to have seen them before Arthur died, but my family has a scale model of the second and I believe, some documentation left with the model.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the forum bhull.

Why don't you consider posting a bit of the documentation you have (have you a scanner?), and a few pics of the model?? I would certain love to see the material, seeing as how I am the person who started this subject thread.

And have a look over at this other forum as many times there are members who don't cross over.

[brian eiland]

... a private email I received recently

To RunningTide Yachts

Hi,

My father had such a 65 ft. Phil Rhodes designed steel-hull ketch
commissioned in 1960. "Sargasso" was technically a motorsailer with a
raised salon main cabin with large windows to port and starboard and
three bronze portholes forward. She had a full engine room beneath
the main cabin. The raised center cockpit had excellent visibility
and kept us dry. More importantly, Sargasso sailed better than any of
the "new" sailboats I've been on with their streamlined flattened
cabins, as if they could do 50 knots, when in fact it is more like 7
or 8 in the best of conditions. Sargasso got up to slightly over 11
knots in a broad reach.

Today's naval architects are in a state of denial trying to sell
"racing" boats with dual stern helms to cruisers who use auto-pilots.
Designers refuse to provide hard dodgers or even well designed bimini/
dodgers, the very first thing all owners have to add. The architects
can at least keep photos and drawings of their supposed "beautiful"
lines with no bimini, but not a single one of their boats ever end up
that way. The Jeanneau 43DS came close to achieving that concept but
then abandoned this look for the "sexier" stylized motorboat windows
and pushed down cabin with no visibility forward from below. The
Jeanneau 54DS is an example of such a missed opportunity continuing
the tradition of what I call "dungeon" main cabins with little
visibility to the beautiful anchorage you are supposed to be enjoying.

Multi-hulls on the other hand have wonderfully large main cabins with
large windows. The irony is that despite all that windage, they can
sail or motor at twice the speed of the "streamlined" monohulls that
only give the appearance of being faster. You are right, more has to
be done to bring about a change in thinking. It is sad to see so many
sailors "graduating" to trawlers because they can't find sailboats
that keep them warm and dry in any weather, can motor as well as they
sail, and are seaworthy.

Enjoyed your very good article. I thought I was the only one who
thought that way.

Regards, X

[Tad]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Designers refuse to provide hard dodgers or even well designed bimini/
dodgers, the very first thing all owners have to add.

Rubbish......the designer has no input on which features will be included in any production design....corporate executives make those decisions based on what the competition is offering and how can we do it for a lower base price......ad ons are all money in the dealers pocket....a very good thing from their point of view.

[Boston]

I always really liked this design but I've never found any information on it

any ideas cuase is looks like one of the Alden full power auxiliary designs that you folks have been picturing

thanks B

[Willallison]

Originally Posted by Tad

Rubbish......the designer has no input on which features will be included in any production design....corporate executives make those decisions based on what the competition is offering and how can we do it for a lower base price......ad ons are all money in the dealers pocket....a very good thing from their point of view.

Yes - perhaps "X" holds a slightly skewed and naive perspective on the way things really operate out there in production boat world....though I do have to agree with much of the rest of his sentiments. I'm often astonished at the number of people who spend vast sums on vessels that are so ill-suited to the way in which they really use their boats. Quite why the average yachtie would go to all the trouble of sailing to some far (or near) flung beautiful anchorage, only to have to dissappear 'down below' into the cabin (I call it a cave...) where he/she can't see out, I find all rather baffling.

There is, however, a definite move towards providing a 'room with a view', in both power and sailing circles - Moody's Deck Saloon range spring to mind as a modern day interpretation of the motorsailer (sorry Tad... less words to type than Full Powered Auxiliaries ) and I too expect that we will se a resurgence in this sector - though I think they'll be more sailing boats with windows than motor boats with sails....

[Boston]

I could not agree more Will
one of my big attractions of the commuter design is that is does afford such good visibility from both the wheel house and from the cabin area

ok the forward space of the raised deck is still a cave but with a nice skylight it might me made at least a little less so

[FAST FRED]

Nordhavn motorsailer an unappealing design....rather like trying to put lipstick on a pig. ..sorry just my opinion

Their novice customer base believes ROOM , mere VOLUME is the key to happiness.

So they create ROOMARANS , and actually sell them!

FF

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by bhull26

Hello all, I am a relative of Arthur Stoner who commissioned the two Virginia Reels. Does anyone know if they are still in existence?
I am too young to have seen them before Arthur died, but my family has a scale model of the second and I believe, some documentation left with the model...

Did you ever consider posting a pic of that model, and some of the documentation you mentioned??

[brian eiland]

Unloved for Years, the Motorsailer is the new Belle of the Ball

This comes from the latest June issue of Sail Mag....a 4 page article that's not that great, but it certainly goes to show that the mainstream sailing publications are acknowledging that the old motorsailer concept is coming back in style.

...and AGAIN the multihull motorsailer gets left out of the discussion...shame on them

[FAST FRED]

"Multi-hulls on the other hand have wonderfully large main cabins with
large windows.


When flipped in a breeze or by a wave ,

the large windows give an entire new view of the ocean.


Modern underwater lights could make it even more spectacular at night!

FF

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

The Windsong design has to be the inspiration for the Pearson 44 Countess production vessels...another very pretty and practical design

http://www.geocities.com/countess_club

http://www.pearsoncurrent.com/Member...s/countess.htm

Looks like those old links have gone bad.

Lets add a few new ones:
http://adventuresofsarabande.com/about_sarabande.html

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2296

[brian eiland]

So here is a motorsailer I found at a marina in southern MD a number of years ago. I've not brought it up before on the forums as I had some hopes of acquiring it from an estate....that looks to have changed.

I have never been able to determine exactly who was the designer....but it had to have been either Rhodes or Alden. The fellow who ran the marina was pretty secretive about the owner of the vessel. I could not get a name or contact address. I really wanted to know who was the designer, ..and who was the builder. I still do not know to this day, so how about some help from anyone.

This vessel was about 42-44 feet long. It had twin engines, and a rig that had been taken off and stowed somewhere in the marina. I think the mast was wood. It was built of fiberglass.

Initially I thought it was a Rhodes design...looking very similar to his original 44' Virginia Reel vessels (posting #5 above). The hull shapes and the bow profile are the same. But the deck house on this vessel stands taller, has 3 full windows rather than 2, and of course a bigger flybridge.

Some of Rhodes larger motorsailers had a taller deckhouse and a bigger flybridge as on this 65' Virginia Reel (posting #6). Could this vessel I found be a shortened version of the larger design?? But I still have not found such a dwg, nor a reference to such a vessel of his. The closes reference I have found is a little profile dwg of a vessel called "Moonshell".


Now lets look at a few Alden designs that appear somewhat similar. Certainly the deckhouse and the flybridge on this 57' Alden (posting #7 above) appear more like the one of this mystery vessel. Of course the bow of this Alden design is much different (and more beautiful I might add), but that is not to say that Alden didn't do a few boats with bows much like that of Rhodes...for instance this 64' design (posting #40)

So now you have it, a portion of my delemia...what is she, a Rhodes or Alden??

[Tad]

Brian,

I believe this is the "Discoverer" design from the Rhodes office, close to their last design before the office closed, design #816. Described as "fiberglass Virginia Reel type for Marine Distributors, 1969 ".

I have an add drawing but it may take some time to find it.