Modifying Plans

[M&M Ovenden]

Originally Posted by HakimKlunker

Not really being a steel builder, but interested: Suppose, that something DID go wrong while building. Or why ever, there occured a damage and later allows water/moisture ingress. I see a potential for corrosion which will be covered and to my imagination not be accessible for inspection. Or is it? What would be a preventive solution?
Teachmeteachmeteachme please

Something could go wrong with any material...solution is pretty much the same for all. Do it right the first time.

The first time is pricey...the second is expensive.

As for later damage, again, same pain with any material...it has to be fixed and that's time off the water. One big benefit with steel is that when something goes wrong it screams it in red before it's too late. If you catch a localized problem (of known cause) in time fixing it can be the mater removing the surface rust and painting.

Murielle

Originally Posted by HakimKlunker

I see a potential for corrosion which will be covered and to my imagination not be accessible for inspection. Or is it? What would be a preventive solution?
Teachmeteachmeteachme please

Same is valid for any insulation material,

be anal on applying it perfect, instead of sufficient.

When something goes wrong (and be sure it will), you may have to weld on a fully outfitted vessel. Imagine you have some sort of spray foam near the HAZ.
Now imagine the several dozens of hrs you skimp on removing that crap prior to welding (or the hassle with your insurance when the junk burned down).

As Murielle said in her wisdom,

there is a difference between pricey and expensive....

Regards
Richard

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by M&M Ovenden

.............By the time your hull has 8 microns of epoxy on both side of the hull you can pretty much say you have a steel core epoxy boat . .............

That's a little on the thin side Murielle, a typo ?

[M&M Ovenden]

Indeed, oops...I was reading out of the subject article and guess the microns stuck to my mind. Meant 8 mils , more like 200 microns.

[Bahama]

Originally Posted by M&M Ovenden

Bahama,

... About cost of building with steel. Yep steel is relatively cheap (and really fun to work with) but too many people get into building steel boats with the impression it is cheap and budget there hull material without serious consideration for the blasting and painting. Expect to spend just as much to coat your hull as you will in steel.

...It's actually your buying a cnc bench that brings me to the shopping point. For the cutting of same files I have had pricing from $12000 down to $3000. At one end I understand that you would consider the torch mate (even though still not sure of the worthiness of it, unless the acquiring a new toy factor is weighting in ) , but at the lower price, why bother? Big cutting shops will cut your pieces off rolls of steel at amazing steel efficiency, bigger the table better the parts nesting. Steel, paint and insulation prices vary in the same manner. For the same paint I've been quoted within a 300% price variance.

Murielle-

Thanks for the detailed info and perspective. As I've been considering the pros and cons of everything I've been wondering if the cost of Monel starts to gain back "some" (or lots) of it's higher price with the savings of paint and worries. I'm wondering if doing it myself savings should be moved into an upgraded alloy. I know that many (most) may say no, but I do like quality and if my DIY of Monel ends up costing what the yard builder would charge (or slightly more) then I personally start liking Monel. As I ponder your comment that the sanding/prep/painting will cost as much as the steel, then it makes me wonder if Monel starts to gain "some" ground... is Monel twice the price of steel? three times? I just don't know the price of Monel, but I know that it's expensive because you don't hear of people doing it.

Thanks for the torchmate discussion; I'm a tech geek and love the toys and I've thought often of making my own CNC for fun. But as I ponder what you've said I've been making lots of life changing decisions lately; I'm getting old enough that I'm starting to abandon certain dreams in order to achieve the highest priority dreams. I've had dreams of adding to my shop and having more toys, but I'm in the part of life where I need to start thinking less... especially since I want to be sailing not doing shop work all the time. So, not buying the torchmate would be the better idea especially if there is no cost savings or very little. So you may have talked me out of that idea, which is a good thing, because it's so easy to get clutter. I'm selling my old Rivett 1020S lathe for example, a sign of letting go for higher priorities.

I wasn´t asked, but reply anyway.

No, you cannot cast your own monel material! And it would not be worth the efffort no matter what you calculate.

The same is valid for your entire boatbuilding task.

Obviously you think of saving money by building a boat yourself!?

That is the most dangerous trap in homebuilding!

You will not save a lot, if any, money compared to a professional built craft!

If building the boat is not your prime mover, leave it for all sake! You end up in a desaster!

A perfect homebuilt is at least 4 times the manhours of a average yard built, and at least 3 times the man hrs. estimated in the plans. (which commonly results in a zero value vessel).

After 35 years in the market I yet have to see the one homebuilt coming out for sale at a fair value. Say 50% of the material cost.

Oh, I know, our very violent multihull proponents have another opinion...

yet I have to see their boats on sale for more than that? The average homebuilt sells for under 30% of the material price after one year from launch.

But there are nice anecdotes, I know.

Richard