Modern Sailing Boat Design

[D'ARTOIS]

If I look at the latest designs of Farr, Reichel-Pugh - who ever next - I see that more and more the boats aregoing to looking alike: straight sheers, straighter bottomlines and flatter scantlings, no overhangs and sharper entries of fore and aft.

Sceificly this counts for the racn boats in the lower middle class from 30 to 40 ft LOA. One Design classes are coming up quickley. Should we be happy with this trend?

[Grant Nelson]

sure, its racing - I am happy with formula 1 racing, for example. They look alike, but in the details they are pushing the edge of technology, and much of this can be translated to boats (or cars) for the rest of us...

[D'ARTOIS]

Nothing against racing, nothing against pushing technology. But are the boats not TOO much computer-moulded? Is it really necessary to lower the freeboard so much and such high canopy style decks?

[Stephen Ditmore]

The rule they race under has a profound effect. If open 60s limited sail area instead of overall length they'd look very different!

But yes, there are trends. To some extent I think bows are getting finer as displ / L ratios are decreasing and the weight is becoming more concentrated in the middle of the boat. Those trends are made possible in part by stiffer lightweight materials & methods.

I think this is an exciting time in design and, to me, the most exciting part is the use of movable ballast and now the experimental boats considering on deck movable ballast-Langman and Bethwaite.And ideas like CBTFco's flap on a canting strut to reduce ballast even further. And soon ,perhaps liteweight leadbellies that fly! Can't wait!! New ideas, new shapes, we ain't seen nothin yet....

[D'ARTOIS]

Doug, I have here something that you might like: the Flying Tiger 10M, designed by Bob Perry and marketed by Bob Stevens from California, apparently not everybody is sleeping in California.
Is this not the design of this time? Please let us know how you feel about it.
It comes at USD 44.000,-

Nothing particularly new here D'ARTOIS-except the price if they can keep it low. But I don't like the Chinese solution to a fair wage....
Pointy rig, fixed keel, great designer, low price-a mixed bag but hardly the leading edge(or even close) in sport boat design.....
What do you think?

[D'ARTOIS]

Frankly, I am getting a bit schizo, tell you why. I am addicted to almost everything that is beautiful, elegant and tat moves fast; had also in the past my part of it. After my turbulent African adventure, I am getting slowly to the point where I was before my misfortune became obvious and I can afford myself to buy a boat that I like and can manage. I had this schooner, but that was unmanageable for me, as a solo-sailor. I have had set my eyes on a nice classic Morgan, but the people in Cal. are not responding to any of my mails, so I have now set eyes on an open 50, Nelson/Marek, apparently of some reputation.
So I have very mixed feelings: I like everything that is fast, but for some unclear reasons the present stack of boats do not appeal anymore to me.
I'll show a picture of this boat - this is as far as my liking goes.....I'll put in in the following post.

[D'ARTOIS]

Here she is - totally different from te other one - but very exciting as well.....

[Matt Lingley]

Hmm, not so sure. Looking at the uk sportsboat scene at least the FT would be considered pretty high performance, although bordering on 'big boat' too...pretty much in the same ballpark as the Mumm 30, with perhaps more bang per buck.

The only canting keel sportsboat about is the Bachman 21 which hasn't really taken off yet, it allways looks too underpowered and short of waterline upwind although downwind they do fly. I would think a bigger rig would suit it, at least in the typical conditions we get here. The other big thing with canters is they pretty much suck when rated, and no one is really going to sail a boat which can't make its handicap.

Unfortuanately 'slow' keel boats are going to rule here for a while yet, but as long as there is some good one design racing going on it's not a big deal.

Hey , Matt- that Backman 29 on the sailboats forum is pretty good looking to me from a performance perspective-would make a good one design fleet maybe. The 79 er(26') with Bethwaites winged canting keel looks good and fast.I say to hell with rules that tax progress out of existence or try to.
D'ARTOIS- more power to you! What was your"African Adventure"?

[h_zwakenberg]

d'Artois,

I don't like that trend you identified all too much, although, from a performance point of view, I understand why we are going there....

A prediction of mine: I expect the sheerline to go up even further - beyond the straight line - for a simple reason: quite a few classes specify minimum stability values at 90° heel - a case in point would be the Mini650 class. A higher sheerline midships adds displacement volume at the deck level, which would make it easier to comply with 90° heel stability class rules.

Would I like such boats? No, I don't think I would, ever...

take care,

Hans

[D'ARTOIS]

Yes Hans, that sounds logical.....

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by D'ARTOIS

Nothing against racing, nothing against pushing technology. But are the boats not TOO much computer-moulded? Is it really necessary to lower the freeboard so much and such high canopy style decks?

The computer has its place... but I agree that we're seeing more NURBS and less art in many modern yachts. There's something about the classic hand-penned lines that just sits right, wherever the boat may be berthed- something that makes it stand out, gives it character, personality. Often today we see yachts drawn to one-up the closest competitor in swoopiness, smoothness of curves, etc. Eventually they all start to look the same. I, for one, will continue to stand up for beauty and art in yacht design, despite the profligation of fibreglass jelly-beans that are taking over our waterways....

[h_zwakenberg]

Originally Posted by marshmat

The computer has its place... but I agree that we're seeing more NURBS and less art in many modern yachts. There's something about the classic hand-penned lines that just sits right, wherever the boat may be berthed- something that makes it stand out, gives it character, personality. Often today we see yachts drawn to one-up the closest competitor in swoopiness, smoothness of curves, etc. Eventually they all start to look the same. I, for one, will continue to stand up for beauty and art in yacht design, despite the profligation of fibreglass jelly-beans that are taking over our waterways....

Rating rules, box rules, one design rules and computer software all contribute to add their bit in making boats alike more and more (within a class). Also, racer-cruiser derivatives of successful racing yachts of course also look the same, albeit with a detuned rig and detuned appendages. Economy of scale does the rest in creating uniform yachts within a class.

It is because of this, that my personal preferences (from an aesthetic point of view) most of the time are one-off cruisers. These yachts (ie. their owners) give the designer a lot more leeway...
From a technology point of view, my preferences are solid with (almost) open development classes like Mini-650 and BOC 60'. It is in these classes, that new stuff gets developed, but to me, innovations made here only seem worthwhile when they indeed trickle down to normal cruising yachts.

That's just my 2 €-cents...

take care,

Hans