Looking for an education

[jdray]

Hi, all. Newbie here.

I've just embarked on a journey to learn about motor cruisers. For about a year now, I've had the (crazy?) idea that I wanted one and, since the idea hasn't gone away, I'm starting to get serious about learning what I can. It will be years before I buy one, but that's fine. By the time I do, I should know enough to keep myself out of too much trouble.

This whole thing started when my wife and I, who are avid novice kayakers (flatwater, with plans to move into the surf zone soon), read a magazine article on "kayak mothershipping." As you may know, the concept is to have a support boat to live aboard while doing day trips with a kayak (or two). When we were younger, the idea of pitching a tent on a rocky shore and camping with whatever gear we could stow in the holds of a kayak would have appealed to us. The idea sounds romantic now, but we know ourselves well enough to know how miserable we'd actually be.

There are several "floating B&Bs" in nearby British Columbia; former fishing trawlers and whatnot that have been made into "sleeps-10 with a dining room and library" sort of micro cruise ships at one end of the spectrum. What we're interested in is more like what's in the cover photo seen here; something small, with the right kind of design to carry a couple of kayaks on the roof, but big enough to sleep four and have a small galley and head.

That boat in particular has more uncovered space than I'd really like, and it looks like more wheelhouse than cabin. But the hull design appeals to me, as it looks narrow enough to trailer without needing special permits or driver's licenses. On this site, I found the Tanton Pic-Nique, a design I like the floorplan of, but it's quite wide. Something in the middle appeals to me. I like the cabin design (or what you can see of it) on this sailer, with the wheelhouse at the rear and what looks to be a lot of living space forward.

At any rate, as Portland, Oregon residents, we've got access to a lot of water hereabouts. The Willamette River runs right through the middle of the city, and the Columbia is at it's northern border. We're probably sixty miles by river from the Pacific, and with lots of great boating spots up and down the coast, trailering a small cruiser to a favorite bay or inlet somewhere has a lot of draw. Furthermore, the San Juan Islands are a scant three hour drive north of here, but several hundred miles by waterway, as you'd have to go down the Columbia, up the Washington coast, then south into the straight.

I know this is getting a little long, so I'll wrap it up. A few of the questions I have are these:

What disadvantages are there to a narrow hull design? I imagine that you'd be more affected by sitting in chop than with a wider boat. True? That might make camping aboard a little uncomfortable.

What sort of speed does a boat like this achieve without going nuts on an engine? Am I crazy for wanting to be able to cruise at 20 knots?

In a related question, how big does an engine need to be to make decent speed without being a speed demon? The blurb for the Tanton boat I mentioned says, "power is anywhere from 220hp to 650hp." That's a wide range. Given that boat design, how fast do you go with 220 hp? How about 650? I imagine that a 650 hp diesel would suck down the fuel pretty quickly.

Lastly, I've noticed that late-60's Tollycraft cruisers can be had for what seems like a really affordable amount of money (sub-$20K). Some ChrisCraft fall in the same category. They look like you get a lot of boat for the money if you're willing to go "classic." I personally like the classic lines of the old cruisers. Are you buying a "hole in the water to throw money into" if you buy an old boat and try and remodel it?

Thanks for whatever info you can give me. If nothing else, this looks like a fun community to play in.

Cheers.

J.D. Ray
Portland, Oregon

[gonzo]

I think that an old boat can be a good deal if you are reasonable. If it is structurally sound and the engines run OK it can give you an economical way to try powerboating and see if it works. Speed estimates for a boat require more information. What do you mean by narrow? Beamy boats handle poorly in a chop; they tend to pound more.

[jdray]

By "narrow," I meant something with about an 8' beam (2.5 m) so it would be trailerable. While it would probably handle better powering through chop, what about sitting at anchor? Does a narrow boat tend to roll more in chop than a wide one does?

Thanks.

JD

[gonzo]

The answer to that is included in dozens of other threads. It depends on hull shape, displacement/ballast ratio, appendages, etc.

[cyclops]

My first concern is putting all the boats so high up in high winds and waves. Wide is better then, to stop the rolling. Normal boaters would not like the increased rolling. Kayakers, I would think, could tolerate much more. Unless you want the most roll free night of sleep you can get. Overhead storeage interferes with tall peoples heads after dark very quickly. Am I missing to many points.-----------------Could you go with a big cuddy deck foward and lash them down there upside down? Their weight would be offset by people and keep the after deck area open.

[jdray]

Good point; I hadn't thought of the wind aspect against the kayaks. I'd been thinking that storing kayaks on a foredeck (like you might on the boat in this picture), you'd create a problem for navigation, as you couldn't see where you were going. Hmm.... Well, like I said, I've got lots of learning to do.

Gonzo, thanks for the tip. Part of the problem with learning something new like this when there's lots of information available is that you hardly know where to start. I remember from high school physics that a boat displaces a volume of water equal in mass to itself. Thinking about it in this context, I suppose that means that, for efficiency getting through the water, you want your hull shape to be high volume for buoyancy, yet narrow to slice through the water. The problem there is that you would end up putting all the "features" of your boat above the waterline, making it tippy. Very bad. So it becomes a tradeoff, right?

I'll go cruising the threads for displacement and ballast info.

[gonzo]

Sometimes there are used commercial fishing boats for cheap. They are very plain, but can do the job.

[mackid068]

You may be able to do 20 kts, but not with a displacement boat. The best idea is probably, if you want a really fancy-shmancy boat (new) such as a Nordhavn, is to sell the house and buy the boat, but that's kinda silly. Go for the used boat. You can certainly find an acceptable boat at a good price. Remodeling will take time, but it is worthwile.

[mackid068]

If you don't mind a slightly smaller boat with a less amount of "creature comforts," check out the maritime skiff. http://maritimeskiff.com/voyager23.html (enclosed pilothouse, nice and safe, but not "fancy.")

[jdray]

Searching around, I found Bateau's DE25, which they just published. It's a lengthened version of their DE23. In general, a beautiful boat, and just what I'm after...

Except I'd like the main berth to have a double bed rather than two singles, and I'd like a shower in the head. Reading their FAQ, they say that builders can scale the boats by about 10% without problems. Perfect! A little effort with MS Paint (hey, it's what's available), and I've got a floorplan for a DE28 that doesn't seem to change any bulkhead locations, just adds one.

I tried to register for their forums, but it takes administrative action to finalize your registration, and the whole board is down today. I guess I wait to ask the designers whether or not this is a feasible modification.

So, what do you think?

Thanks for feedback.

JD

[mackid068]

If you try a displacement catamaran, you can reach well OVER 20 kts.

[jdray]

Originally Posted by mackid068

If you try a displacement catamaran, you can reach well OVER 20 kts.

Don't catamarans tend to be wide? I'd like to keep the thing trailerable. The Bateau DE25 site (noted above) says that it will make around 25 mph on a 100 hp engine.

Displ. 3600
lbs speed
90 HP 22 mph
115 HP 26 mph
150 HP 29 mph

I'm guessing this is max speed. I wonder what cruise speed would be.

[mackid068]

I've been on a 22' cat (displacement hull, center console, TRAILERABLE) with max speed (with 2 100 hp Yamaha 4-stroke outboards on wide open throttle) of 30 kts.

[jdray]

Originally Posted by mackid068

I've been on a 22' cat (displacement hull, center console, TRAILERABLE) with max speed (with 2 100 hp Yamaha 4-stroke outboards on wide open throttle) of 30 kts.

Is there any sort of cabin on a boat like that, or is it all deck?

[mackid068]

Center console with small interior compartment for a portapotti (just to the right of the console, odd, no?)