Liquid Fuel...made from Sunlight and CO2

Thanks Jeremy, I was hoping this subject thread would not get thrown off that track by the 'nationalistic' talk.

When Obama was running for President there was a number of times he talked about conservation (BTW President Carter preceded him by a significant number of years). Obama was saying he was going to put a BIG emphasis on each and every American homeowner to 'do their part' in this conservation effort. Spend the time looking around their home to reduce leaks around windows and doors, install some extra insulation in certain areas, install energy efficent lighting, wrap the hot water heater in extra insulation, etc, etc. In other word very likely the American home could easily be made 15-20% more energy efficient. If every American home could be made so, this would be equivalent to discovering 2, maybe 3 major new oil discoveries. What a concept!!

Regrettable he has had a VERY FULL plate to deal with this cliff hanging economic situation in the opening days of his term. plus many other things. I think this 'home energy project' emphasis got put off till he could address the bigger issue of America's new 'national energy policy'....that issue that Congress fails to address because of the BIG lobby interest opposing change....and thus Congressmens re-election funding.

 

Here is another company pursuing a similar course.
http://www.ls9.com/
A biological, fermentation-based process starting from renewable raw materials offers the most compelling economics. However, petroleum products could not be made in this way. Until now.

LS9 is engineering a wide range of DesignerMicrobes™ that are used in a proprietary 1-step fermentation process to produce renewable fuels and sustainable chemicals.

Renewable Fuels: LS9 Renewable Petroleum™ technology enables the rapid and widespread adoption of renewable transportation fuels. Patent-pending UltraClean™ fuels are custom engineered to have higher energetic content than ethanol or butanol; to have fuel properties that are essentially indistinguishable from those of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel; and to be distributed in existing pipeline infrastructure and run in any vehicle. Learn more.

Sustainable Chemicals: Using the same technology platform, LS9's 1-step fermentation process enables the production of industrial and consumer chemicals using sustainable feedstocks that are significantly less carbon-intense and extremely cost competitive.
****************************************************




I'm still reading about Joule, etc. It does not appear to me that these are scam outfits just trying to sell shares to unsuspecting investors. In fact they are not even public companies that one could invest in. And they don't appear to have made a big deal about pubilicing themselves, rather they appear to be making honest strides toward solutions.

They may not have all the answers yet, but that shouldn't stop the pursuit of those answers. BTW, Jeremy I appreciated your analysis of the land use required.

I still believe that BIG nuclear reaction up in our sky (our SUN) will play a big role in our future energy equation.

I have a stepson up in Boston area studying physics, and I had to let him know about this technology. ( I keep emphasizing energy storage solutions).

It sure would be great if it turns out good. And it sure would be great to have another great technology developed in the USA.

 

The way it works... and the way it has to work, or we end up with bureaucrats deciding what's best for us and when (and we end up with something akin to... the British healthcare system!), is that when the price of oil goes up, Hummer usage goes down. I don't even think they sell Hummers anymore. Motorhomes are sold at discount. People are eating at home or McDonald's (apparently more "at home" because McDonald's is losing money in the US as it is mostly a side-of-hiway stop here and travel is down due to high fuel costs, explaining the low profit numbers here. I think in Europe, people eat at McDonald's because it's yummy! - Number one restaurant in France, Germany, Italy, and the UK- strangely making profits in Europe, thanks. It seems that here, people may even be eating at finer restaurants or at home, saving fuel and living well - Bravissimo!), GM is clambering to get their electric Volt into the market, tho many here would never again buy a Government Motors and compete with our favorite, Ford, or an import (I like Bimmers, but own a Ford F-250 pickup and the car leftist's love to hate, an Excursion, because my Toyota van is simply not big enough. I can fit nine and shopping stuff in the Excursion and get almost 20MPG. What kind of mileage gets a European vehicle, say... this?:


Livin' high, I see. As I caravan with my family with four of those down the Interstate (you seem to be a pretty tech-savvy guy), what should we use to communicate when out of cell phone range? Do they make a hybrid model? Do they make one that doesn't notice towing a small boat if we go to the lake?

I want to be green.

 

I missed the speech wherein Obama said "an American home could easily be made 15-20% more energy efficient and that this would be equivalent to discovering 2, maybe 3 major new oil discoveries." Could you post that, please - I'd like to destroy it as an argument.
Yes, Carter preceded Obama in his lunacy. "Regrettable (that Obama) has had a VERY FULL plate to deal with this cliff hanging economic situation in the opening days of his term." Um, his term is nearly two-thirds over - only 561 days until we elect a responsible adult to replace him. He OWNS this economy, buster.
Would you mind elaborating on the "BIG lobby interest opposing change..." that hinders Congress in addressing our energy problems? How about lobbies on the left and worse, a complicit media? We actually have something like seventy freshmen congressmen, voted in to send a message to Washington, and a few RINO republicans jumping onto the Tea bandwagon (Stop spending money you don't have, stop printing Dollars), that may throw a wrench into your Utopian mechanism (make everyone but the elite in government ride bikes, come up with "easy" money to make "easy"retrofits to save 2, maybe 3 major new oil discoveries, build windmills and a maglev between LA and Vegas, get rid of coal, stop drilling, give money to GM and GE - did I pretty much wrap up the Obama plan?). In short, Brian, you keep coming up with the latest Wonderland newsbites as if they have some basis in reality, then get pissed at me (thrown off by "nationalistic talk") when I give you an antidote of truth for whatever drug you have been taking to make you believe that crap. Come on, man - get a job, go to school and take some basic physics and an economics.
You know, I think I'm madder than that to let you off that easy. I am God-damned sick and tired of the fantasy ******** that is being substituted for down-to-earth values in this world. From the Carter energy plan of uglifying the Whitehouse with a solar panel that supplied one thousandth of the energy necessary to actually run the Whitehouse, to his cable-knit sweater speech telling us to lower our thermostats to 69°, to our kids being taught that capitalism is bad and Christ was just a man, that freedom means sticking your crank in any man, dog, thing - as long as it's not for some fuddy anachronism like "a wife", smoking dope and collecting dole, I'm F'ing sick of it. Frankly, sick of holier-than-thou, enlightened to post religion, post capitalism, post oil, post corporation, everything would be peace, bikepaths and national parks if it weren't for evil flyover America, elitists. Can you read? Yes, I know you can read but can you read? Take a bit to sort your way through this. We have been down your muddy, potholed road before.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Gods of the Copybook Headings


AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

-Kipling

Read the last line in the second-to-last stanza and look up "copybook", if nothing else. The Brits know them, or should.

 

I'm from San Francisco, lean politically left, and have no problem with and encourage efficient design that leads to good insulation, fuel mileage, transportation needs, etc.

But there are far too many topics on the subject of energy that the green / left simply get wrong. They embarrass themselves, and they delay progress.
Society, and civilization as a whole, is not going to go backwards and require less energy. It simply NEVER will. Grasp this, and realize that with cheap power, you energize economies and reduce / eliminate poverty, which takes care of the excess population problem. See the bottom of this post for the tech that will (eventually) get us there.
-In the U.S, everyone should get behind abolishing ethanol. There's nothing about it that isn't scientifically invalid and politically corrupt.
-Anyone discussing new breakthroughs in energy production should keep their mouth shut and stay in the lab until you have a technology which can produce electricity cheaper than can the burning of coal. We should fund lots of research to do so, but until that barrier is crossed, any discovery is irrelevant. The media should grasp this as well.
-For the love of pete, can the green movement please get their heads out far enough to condemn wind and tide generated power? How many endangered raptors / fish need to be slaughtered before you grasp that you are altering microclimates (to a degree that can be precisely measured) at great cost to produce not that much energy and in violation of your own principles? (my comment is location specific: there are northern UK tidal locations that do little environmental damage but Golden Gate / SF Bay would be a disaster).
-Anyone wanting to harness wave power should feel free. Gigatons of power there, and we've got plenty of sand on our beaches.
-And here's the big one - Greenpeace and similar organizations need to adjust their anti-nuclear policies and consider supporting the technology that could save the planet:
-Everyone should learn more about Thorium and LFTR (liquid fluoride thorium reactor, pronounced 'Lifter') technologies and get politically active to counter the billion dollar industry that doesn't want to be rendered obsolete by it. There's a facebook page that's a good clearinghouse of information:
http://tinyurl.com/3ph4889
There's a Wired Magazine article on the subject (now a year old) http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/, a bi-partisan bill in the U.S. Senate, an active and growing community that supports the technology
http://www.itheo.org/
http://www.thoriumenergyalliance.com/ThoriumSite/portal.html
and excellent video presentations (even a TED lecture is available):
http://tinyurl.com/3lxe9vs

Thorium is plentiful, reactors would be cheap, safe, and my favorite: capable of reducing conventional nuclear waste to something lasting only 2-500 years. Stainless steel containers sneer at 500 years.

Bill Gates, by the way, is a good example of the interests that have invested in competing, inferior but new nuclear power technologies that want to squelch Thorium.

 

Right on, 'Friscan!

 

What happens if lightning strikes?

Are we living in the future yet?​

 

I really think you work most diligently at posting negatives about everything you see. You fail to add positively to most discussions.

So I wish you would go off and ********** somewhere else :!:...instead of distroying some intelligent discussions that might come about on this subject

 

Not likely.

 

Obama pushing home and business building efficiency

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/politics&id=7172369

...or here:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-05/politics/obama.energy_1_so-called-green-jobs-clean-energy-rebates?_s=PMOLITICS
Obama highlighted his proposed Home Star program, which was first outlined in the State of the Union address. The program would provide rebates to homeowners of up to $3,000 for making energy-efficient improvements to their houses. Customers would be eligible for direct rebates at the point of sale, according to the White House

Among other things, the program would provide 50 percent rebates of up to $1,500 for simpler upgrades such the installation of better insulation, duct sealing, water heaters, windows, doors and roofing.

The $3,000 upgrade would be reserved for more comprehensive retrofits that include a whole home energy audit and retrofit designed to achieve 20 percent energy savings.

The White House has predicted that between 2 million and 3 million homeowners will participate in the program. Obama said this week the program also will help cut the construction industry's 25 percent unemployment rate.

...I'm sure many more references could be found.

Mark777, I'm thinking you are one of those people who runs his mouth so much he never has the time or capability to hear anyone but his own voice.

 

There are things that explain the US energy consumption (some in US's defence)

US has a lot of urban area in climates that get to non-moderate levels. Cooling of south west/texas etc. must be huge energy suck. Also Places that wouldn't be cooled in lets say Spain or Italy have ACs singing - partly cultural, partly more money. Heating north in the winter is big too.

Huge suburban sprawl less density in homes. Cooling or heating a big single family home is bigger energy consumer than apartments. Resulting long commutes are big effect too.

Low gasoline taxing has never put vehicle economy to be similar priority as in Europe (9$/gallon vs. 4$ a gallon in california). Cheap fuel has made big difference in urban development and vehicle fleet.

Consumerism is rather extreme in US compared to Europe I do not know how reliable the source is but just gut feel - I wouldn't surprise if this was indeed pretty accurate:



And also want to second earlier post correcting the nature of VAT. Domestic commerce in Europe has to pay VAT too. It varies by country.

US sales tax varies by state and many states don't have it at all.

 

just a note about the retail space graph - numbers might be right but the bar sizes are wrong.

I copied the bar of UK 10 times (=25) and doesn't even reach to US's 20.2. So graph is somewhat misleading but numbers are probably close to real.

 

Lets see I suppose you believe that that 'other party' can solve our problems.

If I remember correctly they passed a COMPREHENSIVE National Energy Policyback in August 8, 2005. President Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law. The Act is designed to spur domestic energy production, increase efficiency, modernize our electricity grid and energy delivery system, and invest in workable energy alternatives.
If you read thru this law you will find ALMOST NOTHING having to do with conservation. Rather most of this bill devoted itself to supplying extra tax encentives for the oil companies to go out and drill for new oil, and for them to build some new refinery capacity...it was a JOKE

Oh and I believe the Ethanol program was part of that bill
What about ethanol? According to a 2007 EIA subsidies report, ethanol/biofuels received a subsidy of $5.72/mmbtu. Ironically, the spot price for NG was $3.79/mmbtu on 3/11/11. Putting aside the argument that ethanol is a net user of Btus (i.e. needs more energy than it creates) and contributes to global food inflation, how can it be deemed a renewable source when it requires NG to process/burn the corn into ethanol. Without NG, you can’t have large ethanol output. How can this be considered a sustainable, green energy source? Why spend all that capital on building ethanol processing plants when we could just burn the NG directly in our heavy transportation fleet? Wouldn’t that be a more economical way of reducing imported oil?

...just another joke that Bush and that Congress gave us.


President Obama's National Energy Policy; Republicans Object
...excerpt "And that's why Republicans have come up with two concrete proposals that will have a positive practical effect, two things we can do to give Americans relief, job creators a reason to hire, and make all of us less dependent on foreign sources of oil. First, let's increase American energy production by cutting the red tape and opening up areas that the administration has either temporarily blocked, stalled, or closed off to production. And let's block any new regulations that will drive up production costs for energy --including the administration's proposed new EPA regulations on carbon emissions. . ."

What a great solution they have offered....go drill in Alaska,...and strike down all EPA barriers ...and maybe build more ethanol plants

 

Kerosene,
I have always marveled at the hugh glass expanses in our business buildings and our retail buildings ,...and concurrently marveled at what must be the hugh heating and air conditioning bills for those properties. Our energy cost in the USA have been just so 'reasonable' for far too long, and it has lulled us into complacency as a nation.

We have got to wake up to the new realities of a new fuel world....with all its various possibilities. Oil will NOT last forever.
The Great Oil Hoax

 

I didn't take anything out of context but you attempted to distort my argument - We were specifically addressing Obama's "VERY FULL plate" as reasoning for the shithead to have not cured all of our ills. Yes, the Rs had a slim margin in '05 - but I'm not an R and don't know what makes you think that is relevant. Do you feel that because there are crooked ******** on both sides of the aisle that it somehow indicts me?
Corn ethanol is criminal and the Iowans who say otherwise are hypocrites or plain criminal, as well.
Also, the Comprehensive National Energy Policy of 2005 was not sold as a conservation measure but as a means of increasing production by a Texas Senator. It has quite a bit of green... Hybrid subsidies, guaranteed loans for greenhouse gas avoiding power sources (where are these?), subsidies for wave, wind and other alternative powers, the big one, net metering to all users nationwide (If you make a little clean energy with your windmill, the utility is required to buy it), home improvement tax breaks,... WTF are you talking about - you should love this damned thing! Barack Obama voted for it. Are you suggesting that his own vote hinders his energy policy? You think like a progressive! (that is, you don't)
Allow me to touch on one detail that those of your ilk often fail to notice - IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT ALASKA DOES WITH ITS OIL. That being said, I have been guilty of not voicing objection to fools from outside fighting ANWR because I new the bans could be overturned when we really needed it and it could be considered an in-the-ground Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Problem is, America, the part of America that pays the bills, didn't see the depths of your perversion (you, progressives) until it was too late, and the damage is being compounded by the overspending and home bubble caused by crooked Rs and substantially ALL Ds, led by Barney Frank.
Now, our country may not survive and though I'm not arrogant enough to presume I could get ANWR opened myself, I was partially to blame. It looks like your president is giving subsidies to a regime of dubious loyalty (Brazil) to buy their friendship in oil. Fine, I guess, if we can survive (my guess is "not as we knew it"), because we will be stronger 100 years from now if we hold onto our own oil as long as possible.
On the topic of Methane forming oil (was it DCNBlues that brought it up?), I am not a chemist (but I am a realist). Oil was supposedly formed from large fernlike plants a long time past. These plants were big and there were lots of them - but not enough to account for all of the oil - even if you throw in some dinosaurs. Maybe we are making new reserves right now. If so, then all we have to argue about is your AGW and what you have done to our culture.