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  #76  
Old 12-22-2016, 05:27 AM
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We are currently working on drawings for CNC cutting so the exact number of sheets I can not name, it will be about 25-30 sheets of plywood the size of 2440х1220 thickness of 6-9 mm
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  #77  
Old 01-05-2017, 04:08 AM
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For Lion 550 Adrenaline was the design of the keel box in the embodiment with a lifting ballast keel or a light centerboard and internal ballast.
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Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-56.jpg  Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-57.jpg  Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-58.jpg  

Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-59.jpg  
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  #78  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unik View Post
For Lion 550 Adrenaline was the design of the keel box in the embodiment with a lifting ballast keel or a light centerboard and internal ballast.
That daggerboard takes up a lot of room internally, and interferes with the underside of the forward deck.

What are your thoughts on a pivoting centreboard ?


That mast compressin post is also a major interferance with the forward berth.
What are your thoughts on a substantial mast beam support instead of the compression post ?
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  #79  
Old 01-06-2017, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rwatson View Post
That daggerboard takes up a lot of room internally, and interferes with the underside of the forward deck.

What are your thoughts on a pivoting centreboard ?


That mast compressin post is also a major interferance with the forward berth.
What are your thoughts on a substantial mast beam support instead of the compression post ?
Hi Ray, actually keel box takes up very little space 450х100х350 mm. in case of installation of the pivoting centerboard it will occupy three times more space. The yacht keel box will be hidden under a folding table. For easy installation of the masts spurs of the mast is on deck, so to ensure the strength under it installed pillers.
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  #80  
Old 01-08-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Unik View Post
Hi Ray, actually keel box takes up very little space 450х100х350 mm. in case of installation of the pivoting centerboard it will occupy three times more space. The yacht keel box will be hidden under a folding table. For easy installation of the masts spurs of the mast is on deck, so to ensure the strength under it installed pillers.
Hi Yuri

Yes, the keel box doesnt take up much space. Its the vertical Dagger Board itself that gets in the way of the forward berth. The forward berth is the prime sleeping place in these small boats, and sleeping and getting in and out is of prime importance.

Also, getting the Dagger out of the Box can be a nuisance, and then finding some place to store the thing is also a pain in these little boats.

The Centreboard takes up the equivalent size, inside, but in a far more convenient, low place. ALSO - when hitting an object when sailing, it can swing back.

Heres a couple of drawings to illustrate :-)
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Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-boardinface.png  Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-getcbout.png  Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-centreboard.png  

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  #81  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:42 PM
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For some uniformity of terminology, so we'll have less confusion in case this board topic further develops, here some generally accepted terms for different kinds of boards...

Sail Magazine ---> Some Common Centerboard and Daggerboard Designs

Quote:
Dagger board

Lifting keel - / - Lifting bulb keel

Lee-board

Center board - in stub keel

Center board - in trunk
- P.S. - - In general:

When there's talk about a centerboard without further specifying the type, then in general a pivoting centerboard is meant.

When there's talk about a daggerboard without further specifying the type, then in general a vertical sliding board that's able to fully retract within it's casing at bottom side is meant.
Centreboard - - Daggerboard - - Bilgeboard - - Leeboard - - Bulb keel-Including: "Lifting keel" / "Lifting bulb keel" - - Winged keel - - Canting keel
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  #82  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwatson View Post

Another idea is to have 2 off center board trunks build below the seats / bunks and have 2 off center boards, or have this as a build option.

The 2 off center board trunks could be build a bit canted outside, somewhere in between 15° ~ 20° or so.

And maybe also have a bit toe in, somewhere in between 1° ~ 2° or so.

Pros & Cons of these double off center boards vs. a single center board:

+ more space in interiour.
+ better and more efficient leeway resistance ---> reasons see quote bilgeboard:
Quote:
A bilgeboard is a lifting foil used in a sailboat, which resembles a cross between a centerboard and a leeboard. Bilgeboards are mounted between the centerline of the boat and the sides, and are almost always asymmetric foils mounted at an angle to maximize lateral lift while minimizing drag. They are most often found on racing scows.

When sailing, the windward side bilgeboard is retracted into the hull of the boat, so that it produces no drag. The leeward side foil provides the lift to counter the lateral force of the sail, and converts it into forward motion. The bilgeboards are angled so that as the boat heels, or leans under the force of the wind, the leeward bilgeboard becomes more upright, and provides the greatest possible force in the desired direction.
- adds complexity to the build.
- adds costs to the build.
- adds building time.
- adds weight.
- less storage space below the seats / bunks.
- have every tack to switch between the boards.
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  #83  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:48 PM
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Another idea for the Lion 800 boards, which adds even more complexity to the build , is to have 2 very low bilge keels with build in pivoting boards, similar to a stub keel with center board, but lower and placed at the bilges.

I'll look for an example which I've seen a few years ago on a nearby dried out yacht of the Royal Netherlands Naval Yacht Club . .
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  #84  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:04 PM
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Here's the example of the above mentioned feature . .

Olivier van Meer ---> Puffin Classic 30 ---> Puffin 30 Sailing her First Miles
Quote:


Puffin 30 delivered to the Royal Navy Yacht Club KMJC in Den Helder after the first successful sea trials.













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  #85  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:47 PM
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Some more info about the above boat...

K M J C = Koninklijke Marine JachtClub = Royal Netherlands Naval Yacht Club

Watergeus PDF is in Dutch - It has a drawing of the boards unfolded from the bilge keels.

KMJC journal 1-2012 PDF is in Dutch - Quote is from page 20 (PDF page 22)

Quote:
. . . . . Puffin 30, dit schip dat als „one-off” wordt gebouwd in aluminium, wordt gekenmerkt door een uniek onderwaterschip. Het betreft hier een kimkieler met ophaalbare zwaarden en ophaalbaar roerblad. Het materiaal waarin het schip wordt gebouwd (aluminium), in combinatie met de het unieke onderwaterschip maken de Puffin 30 „Watergeus” uitstekend geschikt voor het zeilen en voor droogvallen op het Wad, ook voor de minder ervaren Wad- zeiler. . . . . .
Google translation
. . . . . Puffin 30, this "one-off" ship is constructed in aluminum and is characterized by a unique underwater ship. It has bilge keels with pivoting retractable boards and a pivoting retractable rudder. The material in which the ship is being built (aluminum), combined with the unique underwater ship makes the Puffin 30 "Watergeus" excellent for sailing and for drying out on the Wadden Sea, even for the less experienced sailor on the Wadden. . . . . .
Watergeus Dutch

Quote:






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  #86  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:48 PM
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...lets see what you come up with in the search of the maximum possible complexity...
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  #87  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:59 PM
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At least I give note of the added complexity of what I come up with . .

P.S. - And I don't go for the max here . .
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  #88  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:41 AM
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Аctually not so bad :-), Lion 550 is designed as easy to build boat, so I chose option two dagger board and lifting keel, keel box is level with the seat and does not occupy much space, it is very simple to manufacture and operate. Using a different design centerboard boat will complicate and increase the cost. The Lion 800 probably use bilge keels, but simple design with no moving parts. I think that everyone in the boat should be very simple and very reliable.
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Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-61.jpg  Lion 800 new  plywood yacht-62.jpg  
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  #89  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:03 AM
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looks far forward, that keel, btw...
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  #90  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:13 AM
TANSL TANSL is offline
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Suggestions are not allowed here. It is about that we admire what is being done.
By the way, without a polemic but looking for what is not obvious to me, I dare to ask why can you say that the construction of this boat is very simple compared to other similar ships?. Thank you.
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