Lines for ice going vessels?

[catweaselcat]

Hi,

just in case anyone having knowledge on icegoing ships, could you please have a short look on my thread under powerboats?

Thanks a lot,

Charlie

[DanishBagger]

That's not nice of you, making threads with the only purpose of getting more traffic to your original thread.

Unfortunately, I haven't any information I can hold back, because of this.

[catweaselcat]

Sorry, if you feel disturbed.

I will not comment anything more on this, except the following.

I did not know which forum of the two is the better one for the question, (not everyone reads both forums...) secondly I like to have a maximum chance for a helpful response. That is the purpose of a forum, no?

If I would not want an answer I would not post except if I could give an answer to someone elses subject.

So, hope to find an answer,

Charlie

[DanishBagger]

I'm certainly not one to say which forums and the sort - I'm new myself, but I do consider it bad form. What if we all did that? That would mean there would be duplicates of every thread in every forum around.

It was a general remark, that I consider it bad form.

Anyways, (don't take this to heart, and just go from there - I'm not a naval architect, not even a boat designer), but I would imagine that a boat with a sharp bottom, a retractable keel and rudder, and quite a large deck in comparison would be good. That way it can be pressed out of the ice, and it can focus it's weight on a narrower base, hence more breaking power.

I seem to recall something like that made to spend the winter in antarktis.

[safewalrus]

Catweasel, further to 'Bagger's comments, this is probably the better forum for what you want, but having said that my only comment is on your other post!

Confused, you will be!

Having said that ice is complicated stuff, best left to THE experts! The only way I want to see ice is in small cuboid chunks (about 25mm around) floating at the top of my glass!

[DaveB]

Hi,

For ice breaking lines / hull form ideas I'd suggest looking at ship design and construction, the new two vol set edited by T. Lamb. I think it has a chapter on ice breakers. There are several features you could consider depending on the application, including a spoon bow, ice notch, and sponsons... podded propulsion has proven successful for milling ice, particularly for double acting tankers...

-Dave

[DaveB]

Here's a hullform that's considered pretty successful, the Candian coast guard's Terry Fox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCGS_Terry_Fox

[Wellydeckhand]

Stop pissfight and more brainfart vote for Walrus!!!

[catweaselcat]

Thanks for your replies so far, but still no info on an actual linesplan which would allow me to get a better idea of the underwatershapes.

@Dave, thanks a lot for the book title, any idea how I could get hold of a copy? Or could you even scan and mail me the relevant pages? Would be great!!!

@wellydeckhand, no idea what the last comment wants to say, guess its in the wrong thread!

Thanks a lot!

Best regards,

Charlie

[quicksail]

Dave, I think he wants you to fly to Germany and hand him the book on a silver platter.

Haven't you heard of research and looking up the book yourself??? Honestly, if someone gives you a great reference take it and run with it. Don't ask them to do all the work for you.

Also, if you want lines to an ice breaker draw them. Listen to what these people are saying about strength, shear strength, compressive forces and design your own hull. You should look at the other thread about copying hull lines and how un-cool it is to do. I don't mean to come down on you, but I can't stand people who don't want to do any work themselves and expect others to give them everything.

Thanks for reading my 10 cents worth.

[DaveB]

Hmm... I'd suggest checking at a library... Preferably a university library at a school that offers naval architecture... here's more info on the book:

Ship Design and Construction Vol. I and II
edited by Thomas Lamb
(SDC) 2003, 2 volumes 883 pages, 13 lbs.per set, hardbound
ISBN #0-939773-40-6 (Vol I) ISBN #0-939773-41-4 (vol II)
List: $260.00; Members: $200.00; Student Members: $160.00
The practical aspects of ship design as they relate to the requirements of the owner and operator and as they relate to the mission of the
ship is the concern of this edition. In addition to the design aspects, coverage is provided on such subjects as government regulations, shipyard
production techniques and cargo handling. This is a textbook that will assist students and others towards a knowledge of how merchant
ships are designed and constructed and to provide them with a good background for further study.

The icebreaker chapter's in the second volume

Can be found at: http://www.sname.org/PUBCAT.pdf

I will not scan it for you... that'd be not so much legal and a lot of work to scan a whole chapter...

Regarding actual lines, they're very rarely published and I don't have any to give...

Good luck,

Dave

[catweaselcat]

@Quicksail Well, noone said or suggested I want to copy the lines (in fact I said clearly that I am not after the pure classic icebreaker hull for my project), but I want to get the basic drift how more knowledgeable people on the niche subject "icebreaker" have tangled it. I'am exactly doing what you suggest, research! Keeping a blind eye on previous work and reinventing the weel from scratch is, in my eyes, pointless! If you want to do that, and have time to spare, go right ahead.
It will probably be the one only time I will draw a boat with a need for these specific conditions.
Secondly, would you go out, buy a 260$ book if you need some info from one chapter in it on one occassion? You must be very rich, or....well guess what!
I have a lots of books on naval architecture and work for some years in the field, but that subject happens to be new to me.
Thirdly I just asked Dave, where I can get the info or book. He provided that info and thats very kind of him.

@Dave

Super! Thanks for your help. I understand your concerns about copying the chapter. I'll have to see where I can get a copy. The tricky thing is that here is no public or university library around where you could just borrow the book or read the chapter. Firstly its English (and there are few English books in German libraries) secondly its a very specialised subject. Wish I would be back in Southampton, there its much easier to find that sort of info...

By the way your full name is not Dave Buckley by any chance?

Regards, Kaspar

[Wellydeckhand]

Yup....... dont know where that come from...... Thanks

[safewalrus]

Catweasle / Welly, as a concerned Seamammal I'd be Veryyyy interested in what you were trying to say in that 'stray' doubt if it was anything nice about me - as a matter of principle! I mean, that would ruin th image I built up! The Walrus being nice! No never do!