Legality of “Borrowing” Lines from Existing Hull Design

[CET]

What are the legal issues related to copying, or at least using very similar lines to an existing “production” hull shape? I’m concerned specifically with a one-time build for an amateur’s own personal use, not for commercial reproduction. What can the owner of an existing design copyright or patent? How much deviation from the original design would be required for a boat to be considered ‘a different design’ from a legal standpoint? I know there may not be easy, clear-cut answers to these questions but I would be grateful for any feedback. Thanks!

CET

[icetreader]

Basically, in this field there are three types of protection for intellectual property: Design Copyright, Design Patent and Utility Patent.
If you're concerned about possible infringements on property rights of owners of any of these you'd probably want to talk to an attorney specializing in intellectual property law.

Yoav

[Caldera Boats]

If it is a "one off" design for person use, go ahead and build it. Nobody is ever going to take the lines off your boat and say you stole their design. A builder can build "ANY" design he wishes for personal use and the original designer can do very little about it, much less prove it.
If you build boats to sell, that is a different story.....

[Thunderhead19]

"Very Similar" is a very appropriate phrase here. If it is "very similar" to another vessel's lines, it is not a direct copy. If you want to build a knock-off, to sell, you're not alone. It is common practice, actually. If you are making an exact copy however, weather you plan to sell it or not, then you are a bastard. Change it by 5% to be safe.

[icetreader]

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

If it is a "one off" design for person use, go ahead and build it. Nobody is ever going to take the lines off your boat and say you stole their design.

That would be taking a risk...
Some gas station owners let drivers who didn't pay for the gas they got at the pump get away without paying, and others don't...

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

A builder can build "ANY" design he wishes for personal use and the original designer can do very little about it, much less prove it.

That's plain wrong, and such a mistake might cost the infringer a lot of $$...
The intellectual property owner may have various reasons to sue and a very good case too.

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

If you build boats to sell, that is a different story.....

At least we agree on that

Yoav

[CET]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Thunderhead19 – by your definition I am not a bastard (although I’ve been called one by others for different reasons) as I would not and will not copy a design for resale. My only interest is building a drift boat for my own use. I plan to base some of the hull design on a fiberglass production drift boat I already own, but mine will be made of wood and fiberglass and will be lighter and, uh…better. ;-)

Thanks again for the info!

Just for the record Yoav is right. And he is even more right if what the person uses for his/her own benefit is a technology such as CBTF™ or the kFOIL™. You absolutely CANNOT use those technologies-or any patented technology- without permission even if it is for your personal use.The good news is that some inventors ,in order to promote their patent, may make very special deals with someone interested in using it if they are upfront about it and just ask.

[Caldera Boats]

Originally Posted by icetreader

That's plain wrong, and such a mistake might cost the infringer a lot of $$...
The intellectual property owner may have various reasons to sue and a very good case too.


Yoav

Not in the USA, You can build any design you want for personal use. Show me a single court case where a designer sued a personal one off builder. There is not a single one.
Although this may not be the most moral thing to do, it is perfectly legal.

For example, if I buy a C-dory. Take off the lines and build another one for my own use (not to sell). There is not a single thing C-dory could do about it.

I welcome somebody to prove me wrong..........

Caldera, you are 100% wrong;I asked my patent attorney that specific question not long ago and if the design or technology is patented you CANNOT use it without permission.In many cases the ripoff person may be able to getaway with it but if he/she is caught the penalties would be severe.

[Caldera Boats]

Again, please show proof.

No person has ever been sued (and lost) in the US for building a boat design, unless it was for monetary gain.

Legality aside, I do not agree or with builders ripping off designs.

Caldera, I don't need to prove something attested to by my patent attorney of twenty years.
It occurs to me that you may be confusing someone ripping off a non-patented design by "splashing" the design. Until fairly recently that was an easy crime to commit.Many people felt design patents didn't have the "teeth" to be worth the cost-that's different now as is the "sort of" anti-splashing" copyright law. The best protection is a utilities patent on a design that is "novel" enough to be able to get one; second best is a design patent and then the copyright anti-splashing protection.As you know for years people splashed others unprotected designs with impunity; you simply can't do that with a protected design without great risk these days.
There are many instances of companies like CBTFco going after infringers of their technology which they protect aggresively.

[icetreader]

Originally Posted by Caldera Boats

Not in the USA, You can build any design you want for personal use. Show me a single court case where a designer sued a personal one off builder. There is not a single one.
Although this may not be the most moral thing to do, it is perfectly legal.

For example, if I buy a C-dory. Take off the lines and build another one for my own use (not to sell). There is not a single thing C-dory could do about it.

I welcome somebody to prove me wrong..........

Caldera,

You are completely wrong and it's your right to be so and keep fooling yourself.
However, you have no right to pretend you know the law or make false claims about the legal situation.

If you have any doubt about what we're trying to explain to you why don't you simply ask an attorney? You'll be surprised that your legal advisor will not only explain to you that you're wrong (and why so, in legal terms), but if he/she is good you'll also be advised to stop telling other people that it's OK for them to break the law.

Yoav

[RANCHI OTTO]

A patented hull shape is legally protected even for a private use copy.
I've patented in Usa my ASD (Arrow System Design), if I'm not protected..why I do pay each year the fees ?
The question is that there are few hull shape patent pending...

[Caldera Boats]

blah, blah ,blah
These are just fear tactics used by designers to scare others into thinking it is a crime, when simply it is NOT!!!!

I still challenge anyone to prove me wrong!!!



By they way, I did finish about 4 and a half years of law school (Lewis & Clark) before I dropped out. The joy of having filthy rich parents.

[Caldera Boats]

Originally Posted by RANCHI OTTO

A patented hull shape is legally protected even for a private use copy.
I've patented in Usa my ASD (Arrow System Design), if I'm not protected..why I do pay each year the fees ?
The question is that there are few hull shape patent pending...

You are paying to protect another person from building your design for monetary gain not from personal build/use.

You can however sue that person for illegal acquisition of the plans.