Legality of “Borrowing” Lines from Existing Hull Design

[safewalrus]

Good fun this eh!

OK so stealing someone elses's design etc is morally wrong (so is stealing someone else's country/president to keep it topical, no matter what ******** we use to justify it)! I'll certainly agree to that! But one thing, was I about to steal something I certainly wouldn't go shooting my damn fool mouth off on a traceable communications network worldwide! Nope I sneak up all quiet like and slide it away with nobody having any idea that anything untoward was happening - as would most of us! So I guess apart from all the nasty comments from some; all everybody is doing is asking questions! right! That is the path to knowledge isn't it! Just thought I'd state the obvious to the people who are lambasting some of us for stealing!

[CET]

Safewalrus, if it is me you are referring to, I have no intentions of steeling anything from anyone, and thus have nothing to lose by shooting my damn fool mouth off about anything on a traceable communications network worldwide!

[penar]

Interesting conversation. If I am reading it right (and correct me if I am wrong), CET is asking, if he buys a set of plans and builds the boat, but makes a couple of changes along the way, will he be in deep bilge water?
If you buy a Mustang and put a ground package on it, isn't that changing the lines?
If you buy a harley and chop and stretch the frame, doesn't that change the lines?
We aren't talking about stealing here, we are talking about artistic freedom.
Once you buy the plans, you have paid your dues to the designer! If you choose to put it together like an abstract Picasso and stand it in your front yard...
The man just wants to build a boat and make a couple of changes?!
GO FOR IT, BROTHER!!!
Seeeya
T

[safewalrus]

CET - Actually I wasn't referring to you! I was using the word "I" this means me not you, would suggest a visit to the dictionary, and anyway if you read it the way your reading it "I" seem to indicate that only a fool would shoot his mouth off before stealing something; whichs frees you of any blame, unless of course you are a fool! I realise you are probably American but that surprisingly enough is not a requirement to be a fool - are you a FOOL CET?

[SamSam]

Originally Posted by penar

Interesting conversation. If I am reading it right (and correct me if I am wrong), CET is asking, if he buys a set of plans and builds the boat, but makes a couple of changes along the way, will he be in deep bilge water?
T

As the game show host says, "That's right, you're wrong!". CET doesn't have a set of plans, he has an actual boat he wants to copy.
And he doesn't even want to copy it, he wants to incorporate one design aspect of it, a rounded transom, into his own design. Hyde isn't the first boat to have a rounded transom, so they can have no enforcible intellectual property or utility patent claim to it. They may be the first ones (which I doubt) to claim that water flows around it better, but that doesn't mean anything legally. If I can find a new use for the toothpick, that doesn't mean I can patent toothpicks and collect royalties from other toothpick entrepeneurs. Sam

[JEM]

This is a certainly and "interesting" thread. You can tell not only by the content but who is posting and bickering.

CET: Contact the designer/company, tell them what you want to do. They'll probably give some advice on how to do it. I did this with a kayak company in NC. Told them what I was thinking about doing, and that I intended to sell the plans. Their response: "sounds like a fun project". They answered a few basic concept questions and wished me luck.

In your specific case, it would hard to get in trouble. Drift boats are a simple design and a few plans for wooden ones do already exist. That unique transom could be argued as a patentable idea, but see what Hyde says. If you create a website for your project, be sure to say "inspried by Hyde Outdoor Products. My thanks fot their helpful suggestions".

Now if they say "No, we don't want you to do it", well then that could be difficult. MY OPINION is that you'd be in an ethical situation and not legal. I say this because the general shape of a drift boat is so common and easy to design. The first drift boats were wooden (all boats if you think about it!). But I'm certainly no lawyer.

That rounded up transom is interesting. Getting the wood to bend up like that could be a challenge. Unless you constructed it from a series of horizontal strips.

[CET]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

...I realise you are probably American but that surprisingly enough is not a requirement to be a fool...

Indeed, you are quite solid proof of that Mr. Walrus!

[CET]

Originally Posted by SamSam

As the game show host says, "That's right, you're wrong!". CET doesn't have a set of plans, he has an actual boat he wants to copy.
And he doesn't even want to copy it, he wants to incorporate one design aspect of it, a rounded transom, into his own design. Hyde isn't the first boat to have a rounded transom, so they can have no enforcible intellectual property or utility patent claim to it. They may be the first ones (which I doubt) to claim that water flows around it better, but that doesn't mean anything legally. If I can find a new use for the toothpick, that doesn't mean I can patent toothpicks and collect royalties from other toothpick entrepeneurs. Sam

Sam, you are correct about my situation. Thank you for the response and insight.

[CET]

Originally Posted by JEM

This is a certainly and "interesting" thread. You can tell not only by the content but who is posting and bickering.

CET: Contact the designer/company, tell them what you want to do. They'll probably give some advice on how to do it. I did this with a kayak company in NC. Told them what I was thinking about doing, and that I intended to sell the plans. Their response: "sounds like a fun project". They answered a few basic concept questions and wished me luck.

In your specific case, it would hard to get in trouble. Drift boats are a simple design and a few plans for wooden ones do already exist. That unique transom could be argued as a patentable idea, but see what Hyde says. If you create a website for your project, be sure to say "inspried by Hyde Outdoor Products. My thanks fot their helpful suggestions".

Now if they say "No, we don't want you to do it", well then that could be difficult. MY OPINION is that you'd be in an ethical situation and not legal. I say this because the general shape of a drift boat is so common and easy to design. The first drift boats were wooden (all boats if you think about it!). But I'm certainly no lawyer.

That rounded up transom is interesting. Getting the wood to bend up like that could be a challenge. Unless you constructed it from a series of horizontal strips.

Thank you for the reply, JEM. For the bottom panel and transom I plan to use a thermoformable foam or honeycomb core material. We’ll see how that works out.

[cshire]

CET,

Have a look at www.montanaboatbuilders.com
They were offering plans for a drift boat with a curved transom.
They also have a discussion forum with useful information on drift boat design and construction.

I seem to remember somebody, the designer I think, stating that the curved transom was probably more trouble than it was worth to build based on function alone and was likely only worth the effort if the builder really wanted that "look".

If you think about it, the transom design should have little effect on the performance. On a properly designed, reasonably loaded and trimmed drift boat the transom is out of the water and has no effect on the flow of the river under the boat.

[CET]

Cshire – thanks for the info. I’m familiar with Jason’s boats and actually own a set of his plans. They are simply the most beautiful drift boats in existence. I realize the rounded transom is more for aesthetics than function, but it sure is pretty!

Thanks,

CET