Kitchen rudder

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Artemis,
Can you ask those who are telling tales if they have any photos or plans showing the Kitchen gear on Navy pinnaces? I am not doughting them its just that I have only found one article with photos that shows the Gear on a Naval vessel.
How is your launch comming, I keep checking your site, but have not seen any building shots?
Regards,
Gerald

[artemis]

Originally Posted by steamboatmodel

Hi Artemis,
Can you ask those who are telling tales if they have any photos or plans showing the Kitchen gear on Navy pinnaces? I am not doughting them its just that I have only found one article with photos that shows the Gear on a Naval vessel.
How is your launch comming, I keep checking your site, but have not seen any building shots?
Regards,
Gerald

The only photo I've seen is probably the same as the one you've seen. The Kitchen rudder was on under 50' launches that were "tenders" to MUCH larger warships. And nobody took photos in the pre WWII days of launches out of the water (during the war they would have been classified of course). I (and others) have beat the bushes looking for these (John Kohnen of the "Mother of all Maritime Links" website has been looking also - with no results). The launches were just not important enough to be worth the cost of the film in those days. I do know - from the person in Texas's launch - that it does work very well. I have a photo of her rudder (25" x 34" prop) as well as one of a smaller, more conventional installation attached. It's also been used extensively by the powered model boat community as it makes starting-stopping-reversing-speed control very simple.

Not much happening on Artemis. Total shift in direction in the last year or so, but I hope to start work on the hull this coming Spring.

Ron

There's a useful description of how the rudder performed at:
http://www.hmsconway.org/relics_artifacts.html
which doesn't say anything not already known, and one
reference to Kitchen at: http://www.historytoday.com which
reads:
"In 1904 Jack Kitchen, a Lancashire inventor, offered the Navy a radio-controlled torpedo, first demonstrating it at Morecambe. Kitchen is worthy of a separate study in his own right. Inventor of the reversible rudder and a very high capacity steam boiler, as well as a dozen other devices, he was arguably the Leonardo of naval innovation.

His torpedo, controlled by a shore-based, spark transmitter, surface running, with a short aerial on top, which acted as a visual locator, could be guided for at least a mile by an operator with a telescope. It was some fifty years ahead of its time, requiring the mid-century development of ultra short waves, highly sensitive acoustics, and tracking devices of great reliability before it could be realised."

To describe a British Admiral as "a Lancashire inventor" does seem a tad odd, but there you go ....

Regret no photographs, even though the Conway upgrade was post-war.

Colin

[Crag Cay]

Interestingly in the 1932 Admiralty Manual of Seamanship there is absolutely no reference of the Kitchen Patented Reversing Rudder. But someone mentioned earlier it was in a later edition.

The Pinnace at HMS Conway wasn't fitted with one till post war, when I would have thought proper reversing gearboxes were becoming more common. Perhaps it was the usual story of over elaborate procurement trials for navy equipment. By the time they are appproved they've become obsolete.

[steamboatmodel]

Thanks Guys,
I have been looking for photos,plans & documentation of the Kitchen Gear in use on Naval Vessels for over two years now. The only link I found was from Barry "I am the author of the Kitchen Rudder article in Woodenboat magazine issue #185.
In this article, I documented Kitchen Rudder use by the Canadian Navy at Dartmouth N.S. during WW2. These were installed on open boats, probably the same 32' Cutters as used by the British Navy.
I have since discovered that the same Cutters were used by the Australian Navy. A description and a picture of their Kitchen Rudder use can be viewed by going to www.woodenboatfestival.com.au ... then click on "newsletter" and download the Woodenboatfestival newsletter December 2004. Contained in the newsletter is an article titled "Woodenboat Profile HMAS Sydney". This article includes a description of the 32' Cutters, the Kitchen Rudder and the picture that you are seeking. " This was of some help, but still not enough detail, plus I had really been looking for one that was steam powered. So I guess I will just have to fudge to fit and paint to match and do my interperation of a Navy Pinnace with Kitchen Gear.
Thanks All
Regards,
Gerald

[artemis]

Originally Posted by steamboatmodel

Thanks Guys,
... This was of some help, but still not enough detail, plus I had really been looking for one that was steam powered. So I guess I will just have to fudge to fit and paint to match and do my interperation of a Navy Pinnace with Kitchen Gear.
Thanks All
Regards,
Gerald

You probably won't find the Kitchen Rudder fitted on earlier steam propelled boats. The reason being that it was developed for vessels propelled by internal combustion engines. Reversing gearboxes in the early 1900s were notoriously unreliable as well as being bulky. As steam engines require no gearbox (reversing by changing the valve timing) any savings in weight loss and bulkiness over steam was offset by the gearbox-engine combination. The reason that it is fitted to small "hobby" steamboats today is due to the excellent steering control and "trueness" when going astern.

Of note is the fact that Kitchen conducted his tests on Lake Windemere. He was very interested in radio control - early tests of the Kitchen Rudder had it fitted to 30+ foot boat that was radio controlled.

"He [Kitchen] was very interested in radio control - early tests of the Kitchen Rudder had it fitted to 30+ foot boat that was radio controlled."

Which would fit it with the info re: the radio-controlled torpedo ...

In case no-one else has done so, I've just sent off emails to the curators of as many naval/maritime museums as I could locate in the UK, Oz and Canada. Will keep you posted. If nothing turns up, I'll try contacting the First Lord of the Admiralty. 3 months in the brig coming up ....
Colin

[BCM]

Included in the British Admiralty Manual of Seamanship 1981 Vol 2 is a sketch of the Kitchen rudder and operating gear as used on British cutters of the type attached to British vessels, Cruiser and larger during and after WW2. There is also a description that is interesting but provides little information that has not already been seen in this thread.

Barry

[safewalrus]

Used it - yes as stated earlier! Took photo's - no chance was a young matelot didn't have time for taking photo's of bits of warships (had I owned a camera!) so yes I can tell you how good it was but that's about all - have you tried the Royal Navy Lib-ar-arry and museum in Portsmouth - in addition there is a steam pinnace knocking about in the dockyard there somewhere! Restored by a bunch of keen restoring types! but if it's got Kitchener Gear is another matter - next time I'm in the area will look into it (trouble is that won't be until next year). will report if this forum is still running (the way it's going I guess it might be!)

[BCM]

ARTEMIS,

I valued the two Kitchen rudder images attached to your Sept 25 post. Do you have additional images, particulary views of the operating mechanism to open and close the clamshells and for Port - Starboard steering ?

Many thanks


Barry

[BCM]

More information about the cutters used by the British Navy and their Kitchen rudders.

Nov 19 2005, I posted information about a restoration then underway in Australia. The boat is a cutter that was attached to an aircraft carrier purchased by the Australian Navy from the British Navy and is the type mentioned in several posts in this thread.

I have now discovered that this cutter was recently relaunched and is the subject of a brief article in an Australian Navy publication dated Sept 07 2006, RESERVE NEWS page 8, titled "New Lease of life for 65-year-old navy cutter" . An image is included with the article.

Here is the link ….

http://www.navy.gov.au/reserves_new/...20rudder%22%22

Perhaps Mr. Safewalrus might verify if this is the cutter type that he experienced.


Barry

[artemis]

Originally Posted by BCM

ARTEMIS,

I valued the two Kitchen rudder images attached to your Sept 25 post. Do you have additional images, particulary views of the operating mechanism to open and close the clamshells and for Port - Starboard steering ?

Many thanks

Barry

An excellent explanation of the action with a view showing a hydraulically activated "clamshell" mechanism can be found at: http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/SLAkitchen.gif

[safewalrus]

BCM, Yes Barry that's the beast! did't realise the beam was so narrow, but that's definately it! (mind you I ain't that old). Incidentally in 67-69 when I used that kind of gear (only the Big ships like carriers had boats big enough to warrant Kitchen Gear) the Admiralty as was (or MOD?) brought out a new style 'workboat' GRP about 45 feet long, big hunk of a boat used for general store carring and as a work boat (funnily enough), some of the larger Fleet Auxilaries where also fitted with them, and I actually saw one in use in the river not so long ago, which was fitted with the Kitchen Gear - was that boat manouverable and easy to handle - took one away from the ship one afternoon by myself to help out and really got into trouble (as you may know the Royal Navy [all Navies?] do not believe that it is possible for one man to do more than one thing at a time! Walking AND talking is frowned on!)

[timswait]

I've found this thread very interesting. I'm interested in fitting one to a narrowboat that I'm building. As an unwieldy long boat that goes very slowly I think this type of rudder would be well suited. I was wondering if Duluthboats or Artemis or SAE140 had built their boats with kitchen rudders yet and had any experiences to share? (if indeed anyone's still reading this thread, I know it's old!)
Also I'm interested in the CAD drawing on page 3 of the thread. Does the tiller act sort of like a joystick in this picture, as in you lift and lower the tiller to operate the clamshells? Looks like a good idea if that's it, do you have any more drawings or CAD files you could send me (I use Pro Engineer, not sure but may be able to import from Rhino somehow.

[duluthboats]

Tim,
My work on these has been on hold for a while. You are welcome to my conceptual models. In what format would you like them? I’m sure I can supply something you can open. The tiller version idea is to give you full control in one hand. I think the Kitchen would be great for a narrow boat. Use electronic actuators and a control pendant hanging around your neck and the helm station is where ever you are.
Gary